SISO to be used for overtime

[LouBarlow]

The company is all about money and profit. There is a zero chance they will still pay you if you knock off hours early. They would be more likely to say ‘sure go home early but lose some pay’. At the minute people are finishing early at ours (because typically they start early and cut corners) and then socialise by various means in the canteen until knock off time. I’m amazed RM haven’t put a stop to that at this point.

[toonshola]

I hope they go full George Orwell with SISO. Monitor every minute worked and don’t pay an extra second for any extra overtime. Dock every second that someone scans out early.
Then give it two weeks and it will be scrapped as the suits who never step into a DO in real life sit in horror at the realisation that 80% of their workforce have been starting early, skipping breaks, rushing round cutting corners so they can get done and go home. These idiots sit in their warm offices scrutinising data and see that 40 posties logged out 35 mins early in office A and think there are actual real savings there to be made. It’s all smoke and mirrors, non of it is real.

[Tman]

I 40 posties logged out 35 mins early in office A and think there are actual real savings there to be made. It’s all smoke and mirrors, non of it is real.

If 40 posties logged out 35 mins early then Stevie Wonder could see that there's savings to be made.
Too many still seem unable to grasp the basics of SISO time-keeping.

[mjd24]

I 40 posties logged out 35 mins early in office A and think there are actual real savings there to be made. It’s all smoke and mirrors, non of it is real.

If 40 posties logged out 35 mins early then Stevie Wonder could see that there's savings to be made.
Too many still seem unable to grasp the basics of SISO time-keeping.

Stevie would be overlooking the fact those 40 posties could suddenly do the job by the book, work their hours in full but with less output.

[funkflex55]

Having a 'job and finish' setup resolves all these things.

Everyone gets roughly the same size of duty which is ~450 to 550 delivery points, each duty is selected based on seniority and you have to finish the duty.

Benefits:

- No lapsing (so no arguments about that)
- No cutting off (so no arguments about that)
- No bringing stuff back (so no arguments about that)
- No overtime deals with management.
- Customers happy as everything is delivered on time.
- Ofcom is happy as everything is delivered on time.
- Less managers needed - saving money for RM.
- Go home earlier in Summer. Go home later in Winter.
- Much less stressful.

Pitfalls:

- Those that need to pick up kids from school may have problems if they are overloaded with their delivery in winter.

- Less overtime, but that can be resolved by having some jobs that are ~700 to 750 delivery points and those people doing those rounds get paid more.

- Van-sharing would suck if the person you work with either wants to rush around to get done as early as possible, or if the person you work with is as slow as a snail.

The latter being a big issue with this idea. So maybe we could do what we did during Covid and have morning and afternoon shifts so everyone gets to do their round on their own, which is another bonus.

How many times - RM are never going to sanction 'Job and Finish' - they'll SISO your working hours to your pay.

I wouldn't be so sure on that, productivity goes up in businesses where 'job and finish cultures' are implemented. It may enter the conversation post USO implementation.
I personally don't like the idea because the cynic in me believes it will only be agreed if the walks are slightly too long.

I hope it doesn't ever come back. Because RM will never balance the walks. Some would be out early and others would not even finish by the finish time. Walks are too big but also some end up with multiple days mail due to lack of staff/poor management.

[Tman]

Stevie would be overlooking the fact those 40 posties could suddenly do the job by the book, work their hours in full but with less output.

Then it would become a management issue. Those happy days of give-and-take are over, so any office being so blatantly taking the p*ss is going to be scrutinised.

[Mickeybrowneyes]

Having a 'job and finish' setup resolves all these things.

Everyone gets roughly the same size of duty which is ~450 to 550 delivery points, each duty is selected based on seniority and you have to finish the duty.

Benefits:

- No lapsing (so no arguments about that)
- No cutting off (so no arguments about that)
- No bringing stuff back (so no arguments about that)
- No overtime deals with management.
- Customers happy as everything is delivered on time.
- Ofcom is happy as everything is delivered on time.
- Less managers needed - saving money for RM.
- Go home earlier in Summer. Go home later in Winter.
- Much less stressful.

Pitfalls:

- Those that need to pick up kids from school may have problems if they are overloaded with their delivery in winter.

- Less overtime, but that can be resolved by having some jobs that are ~700 to 750 delivery points and those people doing those rounds get paid more.

- Van-sharing would suck if the person you work with either wants to rush around to get done as early as possible, or if the person you work with is as slow as a snail.

The latter being a big issue with this idea. So maybe we could do what we did during Covid and have morning and afternoon shifts so everyone gets to do their round on their own, which is another bonus.

How many times - RM are never going to sanction 'Job and Finish' - they'll SISO your working hours to your pay.

I wouldn't be so sure on that, productivity goes up in businesses where 'job and finish cultures' are implemented. It may enter the conversation post USO implementation.
I personally don't like the idea because the cynic in me believes it will only be agreed if the walks are slightly too long.

I hope it doesn't ever come back. Because RM will never balance the walks. Some would be out early and others would not even finish by the finish time. Walks are too big but also some end up with multiple days mail due to lack of staff/poor management.

I agree.

[Moose67]

I do hope this will involve all staff managers office staff who do 'flexi hour's and disappear early on Fridays and also all distribution staff what's fair for one is fair for all

[TopperGas]

I do hope this will involve all staff managers office staff who do 'flexi hour's and disappear early on Fridays and also all distribution staff what's fair for one is fair for all

I can't see the relevance given that I doubt managers ever work OT which is what the changes are all about monitoring?

What's strange is there's seemingly nothing mentioned about such a massive move by either the company on Robin, nor by the CWU.

[A2B]

What's strange is there's seemingly nothing mentioned about such a massive move by either the company on Robin, nor by the CWU.

And the people who say they have been told about it don't want to say who told them.

My manager claims ignorance on the subject

[Robk80]

Not sure how true it as as it was posted on Facebook but apparently from Oct you'll have to sign out on your finish time and then sign back in to start your overtime.

Ghosting finally abolished?

Which 2 bit delivery offices do you people work in? Ghosting was stopped at least 3yrs ago at ours.

[Hitcher]

Which 2 bit delivery offices do you people work in? Ghosting was stopped at least 3yrs ago at ours.

It's alive and well at ours.

[Mick100]

I don’t do overtime ever as I won’t work for a lower hourly rate if everyone stop doing overtime in our office the place would be in a mess worse than when we went on strike

[steve1873]

The agreement clearly states that verbal agreements on overtime will not be affected by the pay to SiSo changes. In theory the admin/manager when he is adjusting the daily siso records can manually enter agreed periods of OT to be paid. It is supposed to be a tool to replace the paper OT sheets but it will still need some manual intervention on the part of the person submitting at the end of the week.

Those that still have good deals for OT don't panic. We went to pay for the hours you worked years ago. Now the only OT people do is their days off anything else is like most acknowledge a slog after the end of a 5 hour delivery. After delivery ot is only for the young or desperate.

However this is just a first step in the use of tech and pay. The nightmare scenario you are all worrying about is still coming but not this year!

I think this is the crux of the problem, why are there “5 hour deliveries” (or walks) this: “oh we only go out for 5 hours” thing is not going to last much longer.
How can you bring back a load of mail when you have only been out for 2/3rd’s of your shift time?

i understand fatigue levels etc but delivering for 5 hours in an 8 hour shift just isn’t going to continue much longer.

(and then as the thread topic, claiming OT inside the standard 8hrs?)

We work 7 hour 24 min shifts. 40 minutes of that is also meal relief. So our actual working time is 6 hours 44 mins. Approx. 90-120 mins of that is indoor time depending on parcel and mail volumes. So how are you facilitating longer delivery spans based on the above?

[payetwhu]

Big office in east London this has been the norm for 3 plus years now