CWU:Rebuilding Royal Mail – A step towards a better future – The CWU Postal Executive has unanimously endorsed Rebuilding Royal Mail part two

[BELIAL]

Now look all you keyboard worriers, the PEC HAS UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED that you vote for a real terms pay cut and god knows what else they might think is for your own good in the future.

OK you do not appreciate it yet but after our extensive pre planned re education communications have had the desired effect we will permit a ballot.

[jessicarabbit]

[keenwalker]

I don't like years 2 and 3.
CPI, not RPI for starters (worth an extra 0.6%). We don't know what the National Minimum Wage will be next year or the year after. If the legacy hourly wage is 15% above the NMW (for example), years 2 and 3 should read RPI or 15% above minimum wage, whichever is greater. We should be bearing in mind that over the years we could potentially be signing up to a formula that gets us ever closer to the NMW. At the very least we should be maintaining the difference, if not getting more.

Also, the new entrant's Ts and Cs. Are they seriously thinking we are going to wait yet again..... jam in September, or maybe December, but not today guys n girls.

And what the hell is Section 6 about???????
"6. New Resourcing Model : EP Group / Royal Mail Group reaffirm their absolute commitment to the equalisation of new entrant(')s pay, terms and conditions through the introduction of a new career path in incremental steps, alongside ensuring the necessary flexibility to grow the business. In line with the timescales previously agreed, we will agree the first step in the equalisation pathway in September 2025 with the full plan being agreed by no later than in December 2025."
So, pathway "1st step" is in September, with agreement in December. Anyone care to say what that means????? Everyone notice there's still no mention of dates of implementation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is a "new career path in incremental steps" ? WTF. Say it in plain English. The only reason they'd be so opaque, is coz it's a bag of sh!te. They're going to re-label things, so new entrants become junior post people, mid entrants, a stepping stone to "senior post person" on the legacy wage. The CWU have agreed to, and want us to go along with a formalisation of the 2 tier workforce that they agreed shouldn't have happened. They have sold out on the new entrants again..... surprise #not#

New entrants get moved from frame to frame with the added stress and instability that brings.
New entrants get last dibs on offers of a fulltime contract.
New entrants get paid less for doing the more stressful frames.
New entrants aren't told all the rules, and suffer as a result.
New entrants don't get to chose which frame they sign up to.
New entrants lose out on all sorts opportunities due to the "closed club" culture that exists.

And the union know full well, that if the old timers are looked after, no-one will strike on behalf of the new-comers.
The union needs to have new leadership, a leadership that will give the new entrants a space where we can have our dignity back.

We waited all this time for this

It's getting an emphatic "NO" from me.

[Acca Dacca]

New entrants get moved from frame to frame with the added stress and instability that brings.
New entrants get last dibs on offers of a fulltime contract.
New entrants don't get to chose which frame they sign up to.
New entrants lose out on all sorts opportunities due to the "closed club" culture that exists.

This was the same for practically every one of us on the legacy contracts

Do you think we werent reserves too when we started or something?

I waited 10 years to get my own walk and 16 years to go from PT to FT

My first few years were spent being sent to different offices practically every day as a spare

Whilst I agree that we should all be on the same terms in terms of pay - some new entrants seem to think they shouldnt have to 'bide their time' for stuff the rest of us had to

[keenwalker]

New entrants get moved from frame to frame with the added stress and instability that brings.
New entrants get last dibs on offers of a fulltime contract.
New entrants don't get to chose which frame they sign up to.
New entrants lose out on all sorts opportunities due to the "closed club" culture that exists.

This was the same for practically every one of us on the legacy contracts

Do you think we werent reserves too when we started or something?

I waited 10 years to get my own walk and 16 years to go from PT to FT

My first few years were spent being sent to a different office practically every day as a spare

Whilst I agree that we should all be on the same terms in terms of pay - some new entrants seem to think they shouldnt have to 'bide their time' for stuff the rest of us had to

I'd happily "bide my time" if I were paid the same rate. I'm a newbie, yes, but this "I was here first" stuff encapsulates everything, and TBH it's really tiresome. This exchange is the product of a multiple tier workforce, and is exactly what they intended.
You say "This was the same for practically every one of us on the legacy contracts ". No it absolutely wasn't. When you were cutting your teeth in your new career, you were paid the same as your more experienced colleagues. You just had extra stuff to learn, which is more stressful, yes. But you paid the SAME.

In fact, listening to you legacy guys going on, we're doing larger walks now, than in the old days. So in fact, as a learner, I'm doing a hell of a lot more now than you did, when you were on your learning phase of your career, on reduced level of pay that you didn't have to tolerate.

[keenwalker]

New entrants get moved from frame to frame with the added stress and instability that brings.
New entrants get last dibs on offers of a fulltime contract.
New entrants don't get to chose which frame they sign up to.
New entrants lose out on all sorts opportunities due to the "closed club" culture that exists.

This was the same for practically every one of us on the legacy contracts

Do you think we werent reserves too when we started or something?

I waited 10 years to get my own walk and 16 years to go from PT to FT

My first few years were spent being sent to different offices practically every day as a spare

Whilst I agree that we should all be on the same terms in terms of pay - some new entrants seem to think they shouldnt have to 'bide their time' for stuff the rest of us had to

And I note you posted to not debate with any of the points I raised, nor raise any substantial issue regarding improving our position with EP, you posted solely to protect your own legacy position, or smack down those that aren't legacy.

[Sean06]

4.2% of £12.54 is 53 pence so new basic hourly rate for a new contract will be £13.07 unless I'm missing something here. Bit puzzled by the previous calculations.

Yeah your correct, it's crap for us, no delivery supplement, no paid breaks and still on a less hourly rate than the person next to me doing the exact same work, I at least expected the same hourly rate.. I for one won't be putting the effort in that I currently do

It seems the equalisation process starts after September or December at the latest so hopefully another increase for new contracts isn't too far away.

Someone posted they couldn't care less about the new contract staff. Can't remember who it was. Stick that person on an afternoon DPR shift for £12.54 with no paid break during the dark nights and see how long they last. I think the cwu are wise to separate the vote about this payrise from any vote on the process of equalising the contracts (if thats what they've done?), just to stop a certain small section of petty legacy staff voting it down out of pure spite towards people on new contracts.....most old timers where I work are great and want us levelled up, but I still see comments on here from people who really don't want new starters getting the same as them. These are probably the same tossers who hide van keys to stop new starts using "their" van and refuse to speak to anyone on a new contract. The same people who don't realise dpr drivers are "postperson with driving" on their contracts, there is no such role as dpr driver, we are all OPGs and might be either carrying a bag on foot or driving a dpr van depending on what is needed by the business at any given moment. People talk about dpr drivers as if they are a separate species to posties despite their contracts and job titles being identical.

Great post

[Sean06]

New entrants get moved from frame to frame with the added stress and instability that brings.
New entrants get last dibs on offers of a fulltime contract.
New entrants don't get to chose which frame they sign up to.
New entrants lose out on all sorts opportunities due to the "closed club" culture that exists.

This was the same for practically every one of us on the legacy contracts

Do you think we werent reserves too when we started or something?

I waited 10 years to get my own walk and 16 years to go from PT to FT

My first few years were spent being sent to a different office practically every day as a spare

Whilst I agree that we should all be on the same terms in terms of pay - some new entrants seem to think they shouldnt have to 'bide their time' for stuff the rest of us had to

I'd happily "bide my time" if I were paid the same rate. I'm a newbie, yes, but this "I was here first" stuff encapsulates everything, and TBH it's really tiresome. This exchange is the product of a multiple tier workforce, and is exactly what they intended.
You say "This was the same for practically every one of us on the legacy contracts ". No it absolutely wasn't. When you were cutting your teeth in your new career, you were paid the same as your more experienced colleagues. You just had extra stuff to learn, which is more stressful, yes. But you paid the SAME.

In fact, listening to you legacy guys going on, we're doing larger walks now, than in the old days. So in fact, as a learner, I'm doing a hell of a lot more now than you did, when you were on your learning phase of your career, on reduced level of pay that you didn't have to tolerate.

Forget about legacy contracts when i started 30yrs ago pt cudn,t get a minutes ot unless ft had enough.so it,s pretty much same shite 30yrs on.an it will never change so just get on with it or leave.also a ft phg still gets £ 20 more a week than me even tho phg was done away in 2000.

[jessicarabbit]

The elephant in the room is that no one forced any of the new contracts into the position they are in. They took the job knowing they were going to be paid less and not have all the same benefits as a legacy member. Yet the CWU who want to change that are the ones that are being attacked.

Go figure

[keenwalker]

The elephant in the room is that no one forced any of the new contracts into the position they are in. They took the job knowing they were going to be paid less and not have all the same benefits as a legacy member. Yet the CWU who want to change that are the ones that are being attacked.

Go figure

No we didn't. At no point was I told I would be working the same, or probably harder than others, on a smaller wage. Keep demonstrating the legacy position entitlement syndrome. No elephants in the room, only dinosaurs Jessica.

[Davemac1978]

The elephant in the room is that no one forced any of the new contracts into the position they are in. They took the job knowing they were going to be paid less and not have all the same benefits as a legacy member. Yet the CWU who want to change that are the ones that are being attacked.

Go figure

I wouldn't say this is entirely true, yes they took the job knowing what they would be getting paid and what terms. However I very much doubt that anywhere during the recruitment process or interview stage that they were made aware that legacy staff were getting paid better with paid breaks etc.

[keenwalker]

New entrants get moved from frame to frame with the added stress and instability that brings.
New entrants get last dibs on offers of a fulltime contract.
New entrants don't get to chose which frame they sign up to.
New entrants lose out on all sorts opportunities due to the "closed club" culture that exists.

This was the same for practically every one of us on the legacy contracts

Do you think we werent reserves too when we started or something?

I waited 10 years to get my own walk and 16 years to go from PT to FT

My first few years were spent being sent to a different office practically every day as a spare

Whilst I agree that we should all be on the same terms in terms of pay - some new entrants seem to think they shouldnt have to 'bide their time' for stuff the rest of us had to

I'd happily "bide my time" if I were paid the same rate. I'm a newbie, yes, but this "I was here first" stuff encapsulates everything, and TBH it's really tiresome. This exchange is the product of a multiple tier workforce, and is exactly what they intended.
You say "This was the same for practically every one of us on the legacy contracts ". No it absolutely wasn't. When you were cutting your teeth in your new career, you were paid the same as your more experienced colleagues. You just had extra stuff to learn, which is more stressful, yes. But you paid the SAME.

In fact, listening to you legacy guys going on, we're doing larger walks now, than in the old days. So in fact, as a learner, I'm doing a hell of a lot more now than you did, when you were on your learning phase of your career, on reduced level of pay that you didn't have to tolerate.

Forget about legacy contracts when i started 30yrs ago pt cudn,t get a minutes ot unless ft had enough.so it,s pretty much same shite 30yrs on.an it will never change so just get on with it or leave.also a ft phg still gets £ 20 more a week than me even tho phg was done away in 2000.

Where to begin.... So I should "Forget about legacy contracts", why should I ? It's literally part of section 5 of the proposed agreement, and section 6 in its entirety. TL;DR "I had a s**t working life, why shouldn't you?". Part of the "things will never change squad", but complain of all the changes happening. "Just get on with it or leave" mmmmmmmm

[Zicomurphy]

5. What are we voting on? This payrise only or this payrise and god knows what gets agreed in the future?

6. If there are to be future ballots what incentive is there for us to agree to it? Will there be financial reward?

This vote will only be on the pay rise and the other issues that have been agreed (improved VR terms, new incentive scheme, profit share, reduction in agency workers)

There will be a seperate ballot on all the unresolved issues. I would guess the incentive to vote yes on that one would be the fact it will hopefully include a better sick agreement and better overtime rates.

Could u copy and paste the section of the agreement where it sez u'll be voting on the unresolved things later so i can have a lil read?
New Entrants
Performance Scheme
Overtime rates

Both parties have agreed a three-part approach to rebuilding Royal Mail:
Part 1 – Rebuilding Royal Mail - EP Group / CWU Agreement December 2024.
Part 2 – This agreement.
Part 3 – All outstanding issues as set out in next steps of this agreement.
The terms of the rebuilding RM agreement parts 1 and 2 will now be subject to a ballot of CWU
members.
The terms of part 3 will also be subject to a ballot of CWU members once the agreement is
finalised.

[Jonathan Alsatian]

Also didn't expect hostility from legacy staff either. Really no sure why they resent us getting paid less than them. I'd understand it if the new contracts were better than theirs. But to be angry at someone for getting less is strange. My manager says they just hate change and get scared of anything new.

I did a stint delivering mail and time on dprs too. I can tell you which one is easier and it ain't the dpr. When I was doing mail the manager only cared about the tracked getting delivered and just bring back the non- tracked if you couldn't get it all done. On dpr you have to attempt delivery on every item. You'll be told not to bring anything back meaning going over your time every single night and then the usual battle to get paid the overtime.

I was chatting to a couple of lads in collections and they were saying its a better job than being on delivery. Less pressure apparently. Although I suspect with the introduction of more and more parcel lockers collections and delivery might become one job eventually

[Wullie10]

"" new entrants get moved frame to frame " . That's it I have enough of this rubbish. When we were new entrants we were moved from night shift station , late shift MC , early shift delivery back on lates all in one month. Plum overtime went to seniors. Over 60s had rounds reduced to help them cope. To be honest its pathetic today. No wonder they can't recruit. They probably get upset mum can't come in and make them breakfast I understand pay should be equal for the same amount of work. Goes without saying . But moaning because you get moved frame to frame. Thats where you lose the argument Unbelievable.