Pay Rise ?

[buchanpeter]

Just looking at some more numbers here.
2024-25 minimum wage = £11.44.
Delivery sup + Basic = £14.44
£3 Above minimum wage.

2025-26 Minimum wage = £12.21
With 4% payrise (Which has been rejected) = £15.01

20p closer to minimum wage.

In order for us to break even we would need 5.4% to reach = £15.21 per hour.

[hero22]

When you are in negotiations at the level we are , Royal Mail make closed pay offers which remain confidential unless we were to agree them.

If they make an open offer it is followed up in writing as it normally indicates we are getting close to an end to what they are willing to offer and then it is down to the CWU to decide what are we going to do to get more money into a deal.

Valentina who seems clueless and a typical key board warrior hiding anonymously clearly believes you just shout at the CEO and other Royal Mail negotiators and suddenly they get scarred and find another 100 million down the sofa cause we have shouted or screamed

It does not work like that.

There are 2 different leverages in negotiations

1. Royal Mail want something from any agreement.

2. They fear that we will ballot for strike action.


You can be the best negotiator in the world but that helps but it come down to the two issues above.

BT made 5 billion profit last year but the pay rise was 1% plus £1000 consolidated which meant for some on the highest rates 3% and others on lower rates 6%.

Royal Mail on the other hand will either break even or make a small double digit profit and yet there turn over is 7.4 billion.

Companies do not survive long if they continue to do this. Hence why they want USO reform.

So on Pay we have rejected 4 offers above inflation. None of these offers include any change to supplements or any other parts to basic pay.

We have a proposal in play which will end two tier working over an agreed period of time. Hardly any other union or industry has ended two tier working.

We have a proposal which reduces from 40 hours net to 37 hour gross working week. This means 6 hours and 20 minutes reduction in working time for a 40 hour new entrant. This means they also get 3 hours 20 minutes paid meal relief. They get full equalisation.

To give you a sense of what we have turned down those two issues pay and equalisation and improved VR put 872 million onto the pay over 3 years.

Remember Royal Mail have to find cash over that period hence why there is a link to change via the USO.

Back to the 2 issues of leverage I mentioned before ,

There is not going to be a deal on USO unless we get a pay and section 5 resolution along with additional benefits from USO change.

Equally there is no pay deal or equalisation deal without a link to USO.

So over the next few days when we are back in negotiations there is is the right deal for the union or we will need to then consider whether the members want to fight for a better deal.

Members opinions are always important but that does not mean that it gives them free rein to abuse individuals.

Important you always understand we have rejected an above inflation pay deal for year 1 or the pay deal.

EP want a long term pay deal to build stability and year 2 and 3 and there will be a reopened clause in year 2 and 3 as it will be based on inflation but we would want a reopener clause if it went below 2% and Royal Mail would want a reopener clause if it went above 4.5%. We would also want a reopener clause if the company made profit.

No harm Martin but it seems the main focus is to look after those on new contracts. It feels like to stop this 2 tier workforce you speak about then those of us who stood outside on strike and lost weeks of pay not so long ago will have to suffer as a result. New guys in my office started on 40 hours while longer serving people were still on 24 or 30 hour deals. I didn’t hear much from the union when that happened. Those on the new deals knew the contract they were getting when applying for the job.
Simple question, by ending this two tier workforce is it costing those who have shown loyalty to the union and have been in the job a while a better deal ?

[hero22]

When you are in negotiations at the level we are , Royal Mail make closed pay offers which remain confidential unless we were to agree them.

If they make an open offer it is followed up in writing as it normally indicates we are getting close to an end to what they are willing to offer and then it is down to the CWU to decide what are we going to do to get more money into a deal.

Valentina who seems clueless and a typical key board warrior hiding anonymously clearly believes you just shout at the CEO and other Royal Mail negotiators and suddenly they get scarred and find another 100 million down the sofa cause we have shouted or screamed

It does not work like that.

There are 2 different leverages in negotiations

1. Royal Mail want something from any agreement.

2. They fear that we will ballot for strike action.


You can be the best negotiator in the world but that helps but it come down to the two issues above.

BT made 5 billion profit last year but the pay rise was 1% plus £1000 consolidated which meant for some on the highest rates 3% and others on lower rates 6%.

Royal Mail on the other hand will either break even or make a small double digit profit and yet there turn over is 7.4 billion.

Companies do not survive long if they continue to do this. Hence why they want USO reform.

So on Pay we have rejected 4 offers above inflation. None of these offers include any change to supplements or any other parts to basic pay.

We have a proposal in play which will end two tier working over an agreed period of time. Hardly any other union or industry has ended two tier working.

We have a proposal which reduces from 40 hours net to 37 hour gross working week. This means 6 hours and 20 minutes reduction in working time for a 40 hour new entrant. This means they also get 3 hours 20 minutes paid meal relief. They get full equalisation.

To give you a sense of what we have turned down those two issues pay and equalisation and improved VR put 872 million onto the pay over 3 years.

Remember Royal Mail have to find cash over that period hence why there is a link to change via the USO.

Back to the 2 issues of leverage I mentioned before ,

There is not going to be a deal on USO unless we get a pay and section 5 resolution along with additional benefits from USO change.

Equally there is no pay deal or equalisation deal without a link to USO.

So over the next few days when we are back in negotiations there is is the right deal for the union or we will need to then consider whether the members want to fight for a better deal.

Members opinions are always important but that does not mean that it gives them free rein to abuse individuals.

Important you always understand we have rejected an above inflation pay deal for year 1 or the pay deal.

EP want a long term pay deal to build stability and year 2 and 3 and there will be a reopened clause in year 2 and 3 as it will be based on inflation but we would want a reopener clause if it went below 2% and Royal Mail would want a reopener clause if it went above 4.5%. We would also want a reopener clause if the company made profit.

What a load of absolute drivel. The union have sold us out and ain't fit for purpose.

Very much looking that way

[Duesouth]

Having a two teir workforce was the worst decision that could of been made in the last deal. Let's not make the same mistakes again by letting go of the delivery supplement.

Making one universal pay grade for all is something that needs to be addressed but at the same time don't let the senior guys suffer by reducing there pay packet, by removing the delivery supplement. If you do that the union would lose members and trust. I also think folk would leave the business and find better opportunities.

[buchanpeter]

Having a two teir workforce was the worst decision that could of been made in the last deal. Let's not make the same mistakes again by letting go of the delivery supplement.

Making one universal pay grade for all is something that needs to be addressed but at the same time don't let the senior guys suffer by reducing there pay packet, by removing the delivery supplement. If you do that the union would lose members and trust. I also think folk would leave the business and find better opportunities.

The CWU went into the negotiations wanting to merge the delivery supplement into basic pay for multiple reasons.
To increase pension contributions and to get rid of the myth that delivery supplements pay for D2Ds.
Martin Walsh just stated that nothing has happened to any of the supplements.
So its possible that it hasn't been merged.
If it was then it would cost royal mail roughly £348 extra contributions per full time person a year. (Excluding pension Booster plan).
With the rejected 4% payrise.
Multiply that by each full time worker. (Not sure how many full timers there are.)

[Sean06]

Lets all wait on see what deal actually is..yes ive posted on what ive been told by area rep. but at same time its negotations so some people should stop wetting themselves an see what cwu come up with.

[RuralVan]

So 1st official day of summer tomorrow and still no sign of a payrise.

[fitz15]

I wonder what have they agreed on and what not.

[qwerty2]

So 1st official day of summer tomorrow and still no sign of a payrise.

21st June is start of summer - Dave and Marty will be off on their holidays spending their 30 pieces of silver

[oypostie]

What dates the Autumn equinox ??

[RuralVan]

So 1st official day of summer tomorrow and still no sign of a payrise.

21st June is start of summer - Dave and Marty will be off on their holidays spending their 30 pieces of silver

Working outdoors a postie needs to know the weather forecast. The meteorological summer starts today.

[stevejm]

What percentage of new entrants are union members? Has to be a lower percentage than that of legacy staff.
Legacy staff have paid more into CWU coffers than new entrants since the last pay negotiations in 2022. MUCH MORE!
And yet the whole thrust of negotiations is to secure a massive upgrade in t&c for new entrants. Why? Could it be that long term the CWUs viability at RM depends on gaining new entrant members?
As for improving VR terms and conditions, that sounds good on paper, but the realty is that the more expensive it is for RM to offer VR then the less they'll be inclined to use it to reduce numbers.
Personally, I'd be happy to receive a slightly above inflation pay rise. A bad move to reject that. Let new entrants gain equal terms over a 3/4 year period.

[paulh118]

What percentage of new entrants are union members? Has to be a lower percentage than that of legacy staff.
Legacy staff have paid more into CWU coffers than new entrants since the last pay negotiations in 2022. MUCH MORE!
And yet the whole thrust of negotiations is to secure a massive upgrade in t&c for new entrants. Why? Could it be that long term the CWUs viability at RM depends on gaining new entrant members?
As for improving VR terms and conditions, that sounds good on paper, but the realty is that the more expensive it is for RM to offer VR then the less they'll be inclined to use it to reduce numbers.
Personally, I'd be happy to receive a slightly above inflation pay rise. A bad move to reject that. Let new entrants gain equal terms over a 3/4 year period.

Why concentrating on new entrants!
Because those new entrants are getting paid alot less to do the same job as you. Plus there t&c are so much worse!!
What an attitude!!

[gypu1999]

What percentage of new entrants are union members? Has to be a lower percentage than that of legacy staff.
Legacy staff have paid more into CWU coffers than new entrants since the last pay negotiations in 2022. MUCH MORE!
And yet the whole thrust of negotiations is to secure a massive upgrade in t&c for new entrants. Why? Could it be that long term the CWUs viability at RM depends on gaining new entrant members?
As for improving VR terms and conditions, that sounds good on paper, but the realty is that the more expensive it is for RM to offer VR then the less they'll be inclined to use it to reduce numbers.
Personally, I'd be happy to receive a slightly above inflation pay rise. A bad move to reject that. Let new entrants gain equal terms over a 3/4 year period.

Don't be so selfish, new entrants are already on 5k per year less than you for a full time contract for doing the exact same job!! Your suggestion is to equal your pay with the new entrants over 4 years?? So you're happy with the new entrants being on less than you for 4 years just so you get a pay rise. Don't be silly

[Fed]

Martin says "Royal Mail fear strike action" What a load of bollocks. They pulled CWU pants down and smacked their bums during the last strike (whilst the RM board were morons), and they would do exactly the same given another opportunity especially considering the new board will be of a much higher standard .