HI-VIS VESTS

[DB1100]

Lets go the whole hog then,dog proof trousers,gloves so our fingers don't get snagged on gates or caught in letterboxes,anti pollution masks for city centre deliveries,ear defenders for walking past roadworks,don't get me wrong I am all for sensible precautions and not taking undue risks but some of this H&S is completely farcical.Would somebody please explain to me why wearing a HIvis vest will protect me whilst I am walking on my delivery

[DGP1]

Lets go the whole hog then,dog proof trousers,gloves so our fingers don't get snagged on gates or caught in letterboxes,anti pollution masks for city centre deliveries,ear defenders for walking past roadworks,don't get me wrong I am all for sensible precautions and not taking undue risks but some of this H&S is completely farcical.Would somebody please explain to me why wearing a HIvis vest will protect me whilst I am walking on my delivery

It won't protect you but it will make it easier to run you over

[brothermagrew]

Lets go the whole hog then,dog proof trousers,gloves so our fingers don't get snagged on gates or caught in letterboxes,anti pollution masks for city centre deliveries,ear defenders for walking past roadworks,don't get me wrong I am all for sensible precautions and not taking undue risks but some of this H&S is completely farcical.Would somebody please explain to me why wearing a HIvis vest will protect me whilst I am walking on my delivery

Brother DB1100

I'll tell you what is farcical with regards to health and safety, it is a well known statistic that 80% of workplace injuries (including fatalities) could have been prevented if management had only properly risk assessed and ensured that workplace safe systems of work were enforced.

As regards to your question. The aim is simply to maximise visibility to motorists and thereby reduce the likelihood of collision and the overall net result is that cycle safety is improved all around.

[DB1100]

I have no hesitation in wearing cycle helmets,HIVIS garments when in high risk area's but to say that we should wear them whilst walking is stretching commonsense a bit far.In my mind this sort of thing gives health and safety a bad name and IMHO does more harm than good.When ever the subject of health and safety comes up its the more ridiculous stuff that gets remembered like Kids needing PPE to play conkers and barmy councils propping up gravestones with big wooden posts.Whereas it should be things like ensuring we have suitable footwear and sufficient drop off points so we don't have to strain our backs.Sorry to go on but the accidents I have had at work in the time I have been at RM are ,hitting my head on numerous occasions on hanking baskets,3 dog bites with 1 causing me to stay in hospital and have microsurgery on one of my hands,fingers trapped in letterboxes,fingers cut by nails on gates and a fair few slips and falls mainly on those tacky pressed concrete driveways.We have to be responsible for our own safety a lot and that to me means keeping my wits about me,ie being aware of what is happening around me,be it old people in motobility scooters or halfwit motorists who fail to see a 6ft adult crossing the road.I am not spoiling for an argument,I just think commonsense is the most important commodity in Health and safety

[brothermagrew]

I have no hesitation in wearing cycle helmets,HIVIS garments when in high risk area's but to say that we should wear them whilst walking is stretching commonsense a bit far.In my mind this sort of thing gives health and safety a bad name and IMHO does more harm than good.When ever the subject of health and safety comes up its the more ridiculous stuff that gets remembered like Kids needing PPE to play conkers and barmy councils propping up gravestones with big wooden posts.Whereas it should be things like ensuring we have suitable footwear and sufficient drop off points so we don't have to strain our backs.Sorry to go on but the accidents I have had at work in the time I have been at RM are ,hitting my head on numerous occasions on hanking baskets,3 dog bites with 1 causing me to stay in hospital and have microsurgery on one of my hands,fingers trapped in letterboxes,fingers cut by nails on gates and a fair few slips and falls mainly on those tacky pressed concrete driveways.We have to be responsible for our own safety a lot and that to me means keeping my wits about me,ie being aware of what is happening around me,be it old people in motobility scooters or halfwit motorists who fail to see a 6ft adult crossing the road.I am not spoiling for an argument,I just think commonsense is the most important commodity in Health and safety

Brother DB1100

Ah that often quoted old chestnut of a phrase common sense. As a CWU health and safety rep I often get fed up when I hear RM management spouting the phrase health and safety is just common sense.

• Health and safety is not common sense, it is based on the law and needs to be approached with intelligence and an inquiring mind.
• The sad thing about common sense is that it isn't that common – Mark Twain.
• A control measure that would have prevented a mishap is often glaringly obvious after the event. In other words, hindsight tends to be a wonderful thing. We have a tendency to call this common sense.
• No amount of common sense can tell you if an electrical cable has a hidden fault or if ceiling tiles contain asbestos.
• Most accidents happen on roads with a dark coloured surface - Common sense is that changing the colour to a light one will reduce accidents!
• The increased use of police speed cameras is a common sense response to prevent the public from speeding.
• An example of a young child putting their hand into a cup of steaming water. Common sense will tell adults that if there is steam rising then it is hot, but as a child has not experienced this he has no "common sense", which is not correct. Common sense is based on experience and training. Don’t wait for someone to have an accident to get common sense.
• Once there has been and accident you realise common sense is not quite as common as you thought.
• Common sense is learned behaviour. Therefore, 'common sense' is only 'common' when you have an awareness and understanding of the topic and/ or environment in which it is to be applied.
• The majority of health and safety practice is just GOOD sense.

That's why we should always work to the proper safe systems of work ensure that management are providing proper risk assessments etc etc.

[saru]

Brother DB1100

Ah that often quoted old chestnut of a phrase common sense. As a CWU health and safety rep I often get fed up when I hear RM management spouting the phrase health and safety is just common sense.

• Health and safety is not common sense, it is based on the law and needs to be approached with intelligence and an inquiring mind.
• The sad thing about common sense is that it isn't that common – Mark Twain.
• A control measure that would have prevented a mishap is often glaringly obvious after the event. In other words, hindsight tends to be a wonderful thing. We have a tendency to call this common sense.
• No amount of common sense can tell you if an electrical cable has a hidden fault or if ceiling tiles contain asbestos.
• Most accidents happen on roads with a dark coloured surface - Common sense is that changing the colour to a light one will reduce accidents!
• The increased use of police speed cameras is a common sense response to prevent the public from speeding.
• An example of a young child putting their hand into a cup of steaming water. Common sense will tell adults that if there is steam rising then it is hot, but as a child has not experienced this he has no "common sense", which is not correct. Common sense is based on experience and training. Don’t wait for someone to have an accident to get common sense.
• Once there has been and accident you realise common sense is not quite as common as you thought.
• Common sense is learned behaviour. Therefore, 'common sense' is only 'common' when you have an awareness and understanding of the topic and/ or environment in which it is to be applied.
• The majority of health and safety practice is just GOOD sense.

That's why we should always work to the proper safe systems of work ensure that management are providing proper risk assessments etc etc.

Having done a Health & Safety course I am constantly amazed at the glaring breaches that occur in our office. Ie: aisles blocked by yorks, bikes parked over a fire door, packets being sorted every morning by one person for her round & being left on the floor in front of a fire door, trays & bags left in the middle of the aisle, poorly maintained vans.....the list goes on & on. Yes, I do report them & point out these breaches of H & S but I'm just seen as a nag & nobody takes any notice.
I agree that people don't realise what they are doing, maybe a basic H & S course should be mandatory for all RM workers......especially management, who are ultimately responsible! They just don't seem to realise it!

[andy2007]

Brother DB1100

Ah that often quoted old chestnut of a phrase common sense. As a CWU health and safety rep I often get fed up when I hear RM management spouting the phrase health and safety is just common sense.

• Health and safety is not common sense, it is based on the law and needs to be approached with intelligence and an inquiring mind.
• The sad thing about common sense is that it isn't that common – Mark Twain.
• A control measure that would have prevented a mishap is often glaringly obvious after the event. In other words, hindsight tends to be a wonderful thing. We have a tendency to call this common sense.
• No amount of common sense can tell you if an electrical cable has a hidden fault or if ceiling tiles contain asbestos.
• Most accidents happen on roads with a dark coloured surface - Common sense is that changing the colour to a light one will reduce accidents!
• The increased use of police speed cameras is a common sense response to prevent the public from speeding.
• An example of a young child putting their hand into a cup of steaming water. Common sense will tell adults that if there is steam rising then it is hot, but as a child has not experienced this he has no "common sense", which is not correct. Common sense is based on experience and training. Don’t wait for someone to have an accident to get common sense.
• Once there has been and accident you realise common sense is not quite as common as you thought.
• Common sense is learned behaviour. Therefore, 'common sense' is only 'common' when you have an awareness and understanding of the topic and/ or environment in which it is to be applied.
• The majority of health and safety practice is just GOOD sense.

That's why we should always work to the proper safe systems of work ensure that management are providing proper risk assessments etc etc.

Having done a Health & Safety course I am constantly amazed at the glaring breaches that occur in our office. Ie: aisles blocked by yorks, bikes parked over a fire door, packets being sorted every morning by one person for her round & being left on the floor in front of a fire door, trays & bags left in the middle of the aisle, poorly maintained vans.....the list goes on & on. Yes, I do report them & point out these breaches of H & S but I'm just seen as a nag & nobody takes any notice.
I agree that people don't realise what they are doing, maybe a basic H & S course should be mandatory for all RM workers......especially management, who are ultimately responsible! They just don't seem to realise it!

I have the same problem: I'm a Bay Reserve, so I end up driving a variety of Scuds and FLTs. It's scary the state that some people will drive them in! But, whenever I am asked to drive dodgy ones, I log them off. As a result, I get moaned at for other peoples negligence.

The important thing, is don't back down! If you have genuing concerns about safety, don't let the managers (and sometimes even Engineers!) pressurise you into backing down.

Last year, things came to a head for me, when I was taken into the Shift manager's office for logging too much equipment off! The fact was, that I'd been asked to cover for someone who had a dangerous Scud. The next 3 Scuds were also in a dangerous condition! The Shift manager tried to claim that I had broken them (4 Scuds in 15 minutes!?!?! ) Eventually, he had to admit that all 4 were dangerous, and had to be logged off. He even (grudgingly!) admitted that I couldn't possibly done such serious damage to them in such a short time.

The problem is, that so many people simply can't be bothered to check these things. The worst of the 4 Scuds had such loose Forks, that it was impossible to go in a strait line!

[DB1100]

Yes all good stuff andy2007 and as you point out this is the sensible side of H&S at work,but a lot of the good work of H&S is undone by a few ridiculous idea's,people have been walking on pavements for years with out hivis vest's so why should we start doing it now? as I have said before H&S is a godsend to helping protect workers but I cannot see why wearing a hivis vest is so important for a postman/woman.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Also don't the bags have a bright reflective day-glo band on them as well. Anyone failing to see that in any lighting (or lack thereof), conditions, should either not be driving, or should be walking with a white stick and a guide dog.

[DB1100]

Thanks TBT thats the point I was trying to make,when I pedal to work and come home from work I have the storm coat on,with its hivis and scothbrite on,and I will agree to any valid safety measure no prob's but I cannot see any reason for wearing it whilst doing my delivery

[brothermagrew]

Thanks TBT thats the point I was trying to make,when I pedal to work and come home from work I have the storm coat on,with its hivis and scothbrite on,and I will agree to any valid safety measure no prob's but I cannot see any reason for wearing it whilst doing my delivery

OK try not wearing your storm coat (whilst doing your delivery) with its hivis and scotchbrite on when it's raining buckets then! There's the obvious reason for wearing it on delivery.

[DGP1]

Thanks TBT thats the point I was trying to make,when I pedal to work and come home from work I have the storm coat on,with its hivis and scothbrite on,and I will agree to any valid safety measure no prob's but I cannot see any reason for wearing it whilst doing my delivery

OK try not wearing your storm coat (whilst doing your delivery) with its hivis and scotchbrite on when it's raining buckets then! There's the obvious reason for wearing it on delivery.

The storm coat is one of the worst pieces of uniform ever, in 6 years I've only worn mine a half dozen times.

[andy2007]

Yes all good stuff andy2007 and as you point out this is the sensible side of H&S at work,but a lot of the good work of H&S is undone by a few ridiculous idea's,people have been walking on pavements for years with out hivis vest's so why should we start doing it now? as I have said before H&S is a godsend to helping protect workers but I cannot see why wearing a hivis vest is so important for a postman/woman.

Yes, thankfully, there is very little "over the top" H&S rules at an RDC. But I have come across some frankly stupid rules in my time. It's a pity that there is such a culture of managers disliking H&S rules. It makes it so much harder to get rid of the stupid rules, or even to modify them, to make them sensible.

Having said that: I'd rather put up with the minority of stupid rules, than risk loosing the important ones.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Thanks TBT thats the point I was trying to make,when I pedal to work and come home from work I have the storm coat on,with its hivis and scothbrite on,and I will agree to any valid safety measure no prob's but I cannot see any reason for wearing it whilst doing my delivery

OK try not wearing your storm coat (whilst doing your delivery) with its hivis and scotchbrite on when it's raining buckets then! There's the obvious reason for wearing it on delivery.

The storm coat is one of the worst pieces of uniform ever, in 6 years I've only worn mine a half dozen times.

Its the only coat I have ever worn that I am more soaked when I wear it, than when I don't. I am sure it absorbs water instead of repelling it.

[DB1100]

Thanks TBT thats the point I was trying to make,when I pedal to work and come home from work I have the storm coat on,with its hivis and scothbrite on,and I will agree to any valid safety measure no prob's but I cannot see any reason for wearing it whilst doing my delivery

OK try not wearing your storm coat (whilst doing your delivery) with its hivis and scotchbrite on when it's raining buckets then! There's the obvious reason for wearing it on delivery.

brothermagrew, You hit the nail on the head,I can choose whether or not to wear my storm coat I am not being ordered to wear it,and I agree it is a pretty bad item of uniform,however I have modded mine and chopped the lining out.But I normally carry a light weight waterproof in my pouch for when it rains,and guess what ITS NOT HIVIS,no joking aside if we still went out when it was dark in the mornings I could see the reason for wearing the cursed vest,but thats another moan of mine cheers brother