Who believes mail volumes are falling?

[kingtubby]

I suspect its 'pontificating for the ultra paranoid' T-man. Snipers at every turn, landmines where least suspected and not knowling from whom or where from. RM management must be laughing up their trunks to read threads like these. As I've said before, unity is mostly words. The union 'as we knew it' was finished at Christmas and pension reforms have gone through. Now all thats left is a fight amongst whats left and posties attacking themselves. An e-witch hunt. Even RM management have the sense to keep their gobs shut when its wise to do so. Much talk of unity from some, but not demonstrated in the replies. The grass roots are in as much disarray as the CWU leadership. Right mess and now deteriorating into throwing custard pies at each other. Most know that already. Sometimes it is much wiser to keep strumm about tactics rather than end up as the equivalent of the Beano.

You've gone completely off beam there I'm afraid - nevermind, keep taking the pills.

[axeman]

play the banjo then old nighty mate ?

[BELIAL]

Some people are so easily irked.Maybe their not to comfortable with the position they adopt?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I suspect its 'pontificating for the ultra paranoid' T-man. Snipers at every turn, landmines where least suspected and not knowling from whom or where from. RM management must be laughing up their trunks to read threads like these. As I've said before, unity is mostly words. The union 'as we knew it' was finished at Christmas and pension reforms have gone through. Now all thats left is a fight amongst whats left and posties attacking themselves. An e-witch hunt. Even RM management have the sense to keep their gobs shut when its wise to do so. Much talk of unity from some, but not demonstrated in the replies. The grass roots are in as much disarray as the CWU leadership. Right mess and now deteriorating into throwing custard pies at each other. Most know that already. Sometimes it is much wiser to keep strumm about tactics rather than end up as the equivalent of the Beano.

Just too throw my 2p worth in here. But surely a forum is the place to discuss opposing views. Unity on a forum is rather missing the point. The time when Unions and Workers need Unity is where their representative body have come to a democratic decision and then everyone who believes in Democracy should then fall in with the majority decision, just as I and other No voters have had too. We of course would like to see Unity on the picket line and in support of colleagues who have been unfairly treated, but you cannot expect it on a forum, I mean forums aren't even a democracy more of a talking/typing club.

With regard to giving away tactics or management laughing up their sleeves at us. I am sorry but I think the Union and Managers are more than savvy enough to realise that what we say on here will have no real effect on tactics and Managers, senior ones anyway don't seem to be that bothered about our opinions and views as they will just ride roughshod over them anyway. If they are looking on here hoping to gain intelligence on our moves, motives and positions with regard to whatever is going on, then I hope we present as many viewpoints as possible and as many ideas as possible, as it will surely confuse them.

[Phantom]

Well after what? 18 days, the poll says volumes have increased and I agree. Shifting from an average of 900 letters a day to 1200 is an increase, no matter what any other person on this forum writes, this is fact based so all other views are irrelevant.

I don't care whether night tonic is a postman/woman/manager/mail centre worker/hellmail writer/joe public or whatever the facts are the facts and an increase is an increase.

[Tman]

="Phantom"]Well after what? 18 days, the poll says volumes have increased and I agree. Shifting from an average of 900 letters a day to 1200 is an increase, no matter what any other person on this forum writes, this is fact based so all other views are irrelevant.

Errr, no, not irrelevant at all.
The poll was "do you believe mail volumes are falling?".
You carrying an extra 300 letters a day does not equal mail volumes are not falling, it just means you're carrying an extra 300 letters a day.
You can't get a worthwhile representation of mail volumes from a sample delivery size of one (you). Even if every postie in the country replied to the poll, it still couldn't be relied upon as a true picture because of all the current reorganisation and upheaval going on in RM.

[Night Tonic]

Yup - again, mail volumes (ie what we, you, us, RM deal with exclusively) IS falling. We are making up SOME money on DSA stuff but at 13p a go, thats twice as much work for the same money. Lot of people seem to be confusing quantity with volume here. The underlying premise (and it crops up a lot) is that management are lying about the amount of business they're doing. In truth, even if quantity has gone up in some areas, its not making up for what we're losing even when its twice as much DSA, and without the DSA we'd be bankrupt any way.

[DGP1]

Yup - again, mail volumes (ie what we, you, us, RM deal with exclusively) IS falling. We are making up SOME money on DSA stuff but at 13p a go, thats twice as much work for the same money. Lot of people seem to be confusing quantity with volume here. The underlying premise (and it crops up a lot) is that management are lying about the amount of business they're doing. In truth, even if quantity has gone up in some areas, its not making up for what we're losing even when its twice as much DSA, and without the DSA we'd be bankrupt any way.

I agree with what you're saying about the difference but at the end of the day, us posties on delivery are carrying more so we're always going to say that volumes are increasing.

What we really need is better definitions

Volume or quantity or value or profit.

[Phantom]

="Phantom"]Well after what? 18 days, the poll says volumes have increased and I agree. Shifting from an average of 900 letters a day to 1200 is an increase, no matter what any other person on this forum writes, this is fact based so all other views are irrelevant.

Errr, no, not irrelevant at all.
The poll was "do you believe mail volumes are falling?".
You carrying an extra 300 letters a day does not equal mail volumes are not falling, it just means you're carrying an extra 300 letters a day.
You can't get a worthwhile representation of mail volumes from a sample delivery size of one (you). Even if every postie in the country replied to the poll, it still couldn't be relied upon as a true picture because of all the current reorganisation and upheaval going on in RM.

So if other postmen are seeing an increase in letters and from the results of the poll then i suppose thats still not good enough eh? what a load of rubbish.

Anyway whether you agree or not, cutting off times have exploded due increased prep time for more items, the splitting of bags so an increase in dead walking and all this is down to falling mail volumes is it? so the more we lose the more we have to deliver? i now know what kind of logic we are dealing with here. This is not just based on my walk.

Another reason why managers are scratching their heads trying to implement all this summer lapsing of hours because it is based on falling volumes which isn't happening.

We've also been told we only deliver to 82% of our delivery due to falling mail volumes per day so out 351 i miss out 68 everyday = 283 so if i've got mail for 320 delivery points then i shouldn't have to go, according to RM figures.

Don't believe in everything you read from RM no matter who shouts the loudest.

Phantom

PS: Anyone know how to stop the courier from being delivered?

[Night Tonic]

Again, you're confusing volume with quantity.

Bear in mind that DSA is a more recent explosion and 'volume' was calculated based on what came through the door but as that is now varied, and some of it worth half what it was (don't forget that TNT are now doing work that we once did), volume is almost irrelevant. If the poll asked 'has the quantity of mail increased?' we wouldn't be having this thread dragging on and we could discuss something else like, whether bike treads are wearing faster due to inferior rubber or does Delia Smith secretly wear thigh-length black boots.....

To be honest, this poll isn't specific enough and does depend where you're based as well. It would also depend on what proportion of those voting were rural or urban so votes creeping up to 14% on 'yes they're declining' don't surprise me.

[pinstripe]

Again, you're confusing volume with quantity.

Bear in mind that DSA is a more recent explosion and 'volume' was calculated based on what came through the door but as that is now varied, and some of it worth half what it was (don't forget that TNT are now doing work that we once did), volume is almost irrelevant. If the poll asked 'has the quantity of mail increased?' we wouldn't be having this thread dragging on and we could discuss something else like, whether bike treads are wearing faster due to inferior rubber or does Delia Smith secretly wear thigh-length black boots.....

To be honest, this poll isn't specific enough and does depend where you're based as well.

My god what a thought! I'll be having nightmares about that, I can't stand the woman.

Have to agree though, the 'quantity' of mail we are delivering (1st class, 2nd class, PPI, Mailsort, DSA etc) has increased. Being a delivery postman it has no bearing on my job on a daily basis whether we are making as much money on it as we should, that is the responsibility of RM Senior Management. Their job is to make as much money as possible for RM not themselves, mine is to deliver the mail. I do my job, are they doing theirs?

[Tman]

So if other postmen are seeing an increase in letters and from the results of the poll then i suppose thats still not good enough eh? what a load of rubbish.

So, hypothetically speaking, if the amount of mail your DO had to deliver on a certain day was down by 10%, but over the weekend they'd amalgamated walks to lose 20% of the staff, would you then be still squaking that mail volumes were definitely going up, or would you agree that the increase in your bag is down to other reasons?
Simple question, no pressure............

[DGP1]

So if other postmen are seeing an increase in letters and from the results of the poll then i suppose thats still not good enough eh? what a load of rubbish.

So, hypothetically speaking, if the amount of mail your DO had to deliver on a certain day was down by 10%, but over the weekend they'd amalgamated walks to lose 20% of the staff, would you then be still squaking that mail volumes were definitely going up, or would you agree that the increase in your bag is down to other reasons?
Simple question, no pressure............

If that was to happen then it would be true but my DO has lost no walks (fact is that they are bringing in extra duties) so it then stands to reason that we're delivering more

[axeman]

Again the figgures are always going to show a downward trend when lieton & co want to bring in 'the reforms' we know how the 'books' are blatantly 'cooked' (not by delia) whether it's dsa or unmachinable thats comming to us the volumes are certainly going upward and not due to an increased delivery spec forced upon us. No amount of figs plucked out of r.m's book of bull 'look at this boys and girls' you now have to absorb half another walk to make us a viable organisation bullshit bags are fuller and mail volumes are on the increase .......perse

[Tman]

If that was to happen then it would be true but my DO has lost no walks (fact is that they are bringing in extra duties) so it then stands to reason that we're delivering more

That would be a good point but for one rather obvious thing, namely RM doesn't start and finish at your DO, but is a nation-wide organisation.
I reckon you understand the point perfectly well really (at least I hope to God you do!!!!) but just want to play the obtuse card for (most likely) the same old same old reason. Should I use the "head-banging-on-wall" emoticon too, or go down the basic logic and maths route even further?