Leighton reckons we aint got it in us

[jafferpants]

Oh get real TBT. The only one acting like 1978 is the union and its stalwarts. The job IS well paid- a lot better than almost any other unskilled job and a lot less tiring than some. Stiving for better conditions is one thing but far far easier to go to night school, learn a proper trade and earn better money.

RE your quote " A lot less tiring than some". You really must tell us your secret. I work alongside 220 postie's everyone of em f****d. So do tell us what is the potion for your boundless energy. We wait with baited breath.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Oh get real TBT. The only one acting like 1978 is the union and its stalwarts. The job IS well paid- a lot better than almost any other unskilled job and a lot less tiring than some. Stiving for better conditions is one thing but far far easier to go to night school, learn a proper trade and earn better money.

You may want to re read my post - I did not say it was not well paid in fact I think it is - what I said is that just because minimum wage its accepted elsewhere does not make it right or that we should accept it here.

In a capitalist society people are paid on a supply and demand basis. If they want a supply of decent posties I demand a decent living wage.

Also as a Union man I am told to get out of the 70 & 80s can I not counter opposing views with the same argument if the premise of that argument fits. BTW I said 1878

My main point is simple. Just because people accept elsewhere it does not make it right.

[norbert]

well firstly id like to point out that the point of royal mail is to offer a service to the public,its not a public service its a business,and businesses are their to make money end of.
they will always no matter what year on year look for cuts somewhere.
but lets not kid ourselves were all hard done by here,as ive said many times we are paid (like it or not)an exceptional amount of money for what in reality is a minimum wage job anywhere else.

go out and try working shifts at the end of a machine with 30 minutes break for minimum wage with no added bonuses or pension contributions and see which you prefer..i know which i prefer.the easier simpler and more rewarding job which is why im here.oh and they retire at 65 like normal people.lets not cry that we cant walk the streets with a meer 16 kg bag at 64 when anywhere else the maximum lift is 25 kgs thousands of times a day till your 65.

some people need a serious reality check

Just because it happens elsewhere does not make it right. . Are we not allowed to try and improve our pay and conditions. Are we not allowed to voice our concerns. Are we not allowed to try and improve the H&S regime of our employers.

I am glad we have a union and I pray I never have your stance on pay and conditions because in your world the Rich get Richer and the Poor get poorer, and the annoying thing is you think that's is OK.

Its 2008 you know not 1878 - Anyone got a 5 year old willing to go work at t'mill for 18 hours on minimum wage.

Royal Mail was a Public Service up until 8 years ago. It became a Public Limited Company wholly owned by HM Government in 2000. The name initially registered with Companies House was Trushelfco (No 2758) and this was changed to Consignia plc on 26th January 2001.The government announced it was the sole shareholder and made Royal Mail a Business for most of its time Royal Mails main aim was to provide a service and not a profit.

[donut]

^ bilmey ....popcorn.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

thankyou i know what year it is.im not and did not say that its fine for the rich to get richer and the poor poor.im saying you arnt one of the poor ones.does that compute with you.......
incidentally theres nothing standing between you or i being one of the rich ones but i guess like me you like the simple easy life...it is 2008 (lol)if your life isnt good enough improve it yourself not expect more and more from others

Does it compute that I did not say we are not one of the poor ones, I have even said in this thread that the pay is good. What I am trying to say is that just because someone somewhere else gets minimum wage for longer hours and harder work does not mean we should accept it at Royal Mail, or that we should not protect or try to improve our pay and conditions.

My life does not need improving I have no need to be rich in fact I see the aim of being rich as immoral. I have however been able to make sure that when I retire I will have no money worries and at the moment I owe no money to anyone and always pay off may debts. I would describe myself as comfortable and that's all I want to be.

As for improving myself, money does not improve you, it may make it easier to do what you want but it does not improve anyone as a person. Life experiences, and how you handle yourself when the s**t hits the fan that's what improves a person. Also I get genuine pleasure when I am able to help my fellow workers and make some genuine improvement to their working lives, but hey I am just a Union fanatic and you and I will never see eye to eye. Good luck in getting rich.

[pinstripe]

unions used to say a fair days work for a fair days pay......now its more more more....teachers 26grand/year how many holidays?now going on strike tube drivers 30 plus grand a year not happy with there 6 percent pay rise being balloted on strike action now....i could go on but what do they all have in common their paid for from the taxes of mainly the poor ..
..
what happened to the windfall taxes on fat cats .labour promised you before you paid for and voted for them?
just today im 200 pounds worse of under labour.scraping the 10p/£ tax band
thankyou all for paying for them to do it to me....maybe with you guys i will have to send my 8 year old up the mills...except you union guys have killed off the mills....mines then...opps another.....shoe making nope ...oh fuk it ill start begging my employer for even more money for my 6 hrs of simple knuckle dragging work

Uninformed and plain wrong.
At least it's not just our union you hate. You seem to disagree to anyone improving their standard of living. In this day and age what would you describe as a good standard of living, what price would you put on a decent wage, who in your opinion actually deserves to earn a decent living. Doctors, nurses, firemen, policemen,? Obviously you don't think teachers or train drivers deserve anything and as for postmen! So just who does? City fat cat who's hardest day at work is signing their own bonus cheque and making thousands unemployed? Cowboy builders who rip of their clients? Internet fraudsters who con everybody stupid enough to believe what they offer?
By the way, you should inform the general public that we are no longer a public service as most of them are still under the impression that we are, but then again, you probably don't think they deserve it.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

thankyou i know what year it is.im not and did not say that its fine for the rich to get richer and the poor poor.im saying you arnt one of the poor ones.does that compute with you.......
incidentally theres nothing standing between you or i being one of the rich ones but i guess like me you like the simple easy life...it is 2008 (lol)if your life isnt good enough improve it yourself not expect more and more from others

Does it compute that I did not say we are not one of the poor ones, I have even said in this thread that the pay is good. What I am trying to say is that just because someone somewhere else gets minimum wage for longer hours and harder work does not mean we should accept it at Royal Mail, or that we should not protect or try to improve our pay and conditions.

My life does not need improving I have no need to be rich in fact I see the aim of being rich as immoral. I have however been able to make sure that when I retire I will have no money worries and at the moment I owe no money to anyone and always pay off may debts. I would describe myself as comfortable and that's all I want to be.

As for improving myself, money does not improve you, it may make it easier to do what you want but it does not improve anyone as a person. Life experiences, and how you handle yourself when the s**t hits the fan that's what improves a person. Also I get genuine pleasure when I am able to help my fellow workers and make some genuine improvement to their working lives, but hey I am just a Union fanatic and you and I will never see eye to eye. Good luck in getting rich.

so do you see or not that for any given job no matter what it is , has an actual value and there for cannot sustain paying more and more to have it accomplished.

So you will refuse any more pay rises until your wage reached the value of "knuckle dragging" after all you have to be true to your beliefs.

I do see that all jobs have a value, however what I disagree with is that the Bosses can impose their perceived value of a job on the workforce, without that workforce having an input. We do under the present system and its called the CWU.

Also with our last rise and the one due soon both being under RPI and at less than the official inflation figures, the value of our job has decreased. If they cannot sustain wage rises for the average worker then why do they keep putting up taxes and household bills. If bills staid at the same level year in and year out I would be more than happy to keep my wages at the same level year in year out. But as the Government either put up taxes, or allow utility companies to raise their bills by inflation plus 1%, I will keep asking for a pay rise.

Perhaps this is the weakness of a Capitalist system but as I can see no real alternative I will have to leave under this system.

[DGP1]

thankyou i know what year it is.im not and did not say that its fine for the rich to get richer and the poor poor.im saying you arnt one of the poor ones.does that compute with you.......
incidentally theres nothing standing between you or i being one of the rich ones but i guess like me you like the simple easy life...it is 2008 (lol)if your life isnt good enough improve it yourself not expect more and more from others

Does it compute that I did not say we are not one of the poor ones, I have even said in this thread that the pay is good. What I am trying to say is that just because someone somewhere else gets minimum wage for longer hours and harder work does not mean we should accept it at Royal Mail, or that we should not protect or try to improve our pay and conditions.

My life does not need improving I have no need to be rich in fact I see the aim of being rich as immoral. I have however been able to make sure that when I retire I will have no money worries and at the moment I owe no money to anyone and always pay off may debts. I would describe myself as comfortable and that's all I want to be.

As for improving myself, money does not improve you, it may make it easier to do what you want but it does not improve anyone as a person. Life experiences, and how you handle yourself when the s**t hits the fan that's what improves a person. Also I get genuine pleasure when I am able to help my fellow workers and make some genuine improvement to their working lives, but hey I am just a Union fanatic and you and I will never see eye to eye. Good luck in getting rich.

so do you see or not that for any given job no matter what it is , has an actual value and there for cannot sustain paying more and more to have it accomplished.

Why shouldn't we get paid more?? Managers always seem to pay themselves more and they don't really provide any real work (at least as far as I see).

If you look a the financial result for large companies then you'll see that they make more money by paying less and less to the staff who do all the work whilst paying themselves large salaries and even larger bonuses.

One more thing the £250/week I take home is not what I'd call great, it's not even enough to live on these days (food prices, fuel prices, council taxes, general taxes etc all going up is going to more difficult next year)

[Night Tonic]

Because in the real world, more is never enough and if yours went up, so would everyone elses. If it was doubled you'd still want more. If you really want more than an unskilled job then train, learn. This isn't and never will be a marxist state.

[jafferpants]

Because in the real world, more is never enough and if yours went up, so would everyone elses. If it was doubled you'd still want more. If you really want more than an unskilled job then train, learn. This isn't and never will be a marxist state.

Hay night tonic i'm still waiting for an answer from you about your never tiring body as you made it plain in your earlier post it's not physicaly demanding so whats the secret. Come on now dont be bashfull.

[jafferpants]

Because in the real world, more is never enough and if yours went up, so would everyone elses. If it was doubled you'd still want more. If you really want more than an unskilled job then train, learn. This isn't and never will be a marxist state.

You really are deluded. This government is about to set a base price for drink, they are telling you what to eat and how much, what sort of car you can own and pretty soon when and where you can drive. I call that communisum. What do you call it?. Also re your train and learn ethic. Have you not noticed thousands of university grads walking around with every qualification under the sun and no work. Wake up and smell the roses.

[DGP1]

Because in the real world, more is never enough and if yours went up, so would everyone elses. If it was doubled you'd still want more. If you really want more than an unskilled job then train, learn. This isn't and never will be a marxist state.

Train as what?? I've done a few jobs in my time but up until a year or so ago I really enjoyed this job but with the constant attacks on our T&C's and the constant increases in prices because of the Labour party and their cosying up to big business (not to mention their illegal wars) I feel I should get an extra part of their gravy boat (just to watch them as inflation spirals out of control)

[Thorby Bislam]

What is also different is possibly the fact that the people who sign-off executive pay, and the extreme executive increases in pay is another matter.

You were doing alright up to here. Couldn't follow the grammar either.

[col456xyz]

leighton is a clever man
he knows people are fed up with the 2 clowns running our union
he knows what a total cock up the last campaign was
will this one be supported as strongley ????????
I dont think so
people know something must be done but have lost faith in the union

[andy2007]

Because in the real world, more is never enough and if yours went up, so would everyone elses. If it was doubled you'd still want more. If you really want more than an unskilled job then train, learn. This isn't and never will be a marxist state.

You would be surprised at how well trained some of us are. Personally, I'm a qualified Analyst/Programmer. But I decided that I would prefer to work in the Service Industries. Originally with a Dental Lab, and later at RM. I know of at least a couple of my Collegues who have better qualifications than me.

You see, there comes a time in a lot of people's lives, when we decide that it is about time that we gave something BACK to the Community. Perhaps you should seriously think about YOUR aims in life.

You need to stop being so fixated on demands for more money. What most of us want, is for our wages to keep pace with Inflation, so we can maintain our current standard of living. Keeping our wages down won't have a big effect on Inflation. Most of it is driven by people in much better paid jobs, buy several houses to rent them, and play the Stock Market. They have the money to spend on luxuries, and also push up the House prices, further increasing Inflation.

I have no problem with people doing well for themselves, if it's through hard graft.

Two (probably unpopular) examples are:
Bill Gates : Started out tinkering with Computers years before the IBM PC was launched. Saw a niche in the Market, excploited it, and built up a multi billion Dollar fortune from Microsoft. Until recently, he was still directly involved with the WORK of developing the Software.

Sir Clive Sinclair : Again, started off small. Developed the first Home Computer, the MK14 in 1977. Went on to develop several very popular Home Computers, and also made a hell of a lot of money (but not in Mr. Gates league).

I realise that some of my fellow CWU Members will frown on my respect for people like them (and many others), but the fact is, that they started out with nothing, and worked very hard to build up their Companies.

Leighton on the other hand, has a reputation for decimating Companies to make them profitable, instead of building them up. And also for Union Busting tactics, which include provoking Strike Action, to (supposedly) make us too frightened to stand up to him, because of all the money we loose through Industrial Action.

That's where he is going wrong. He seems to think that all we care about is making money. But there are many of us, who simply want to be treated fairly, and provide a good Service to the Public.