3rd stage warning and dismissal

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 05 Apr 2008, 17:09

This happened to some one at my work today, they have been given 7 weeks notice and 3 days to appeal the decision, in fairness their sick record is abysmal but have all been covered by a doctors line.

Any one have any idea how these appeals go and what are there chances?

madelin4 · Post by **madelin4** » 05 Apr 2008, 17:12

simply_the_best wrote:This happened to some one at my work today, they have been given 7 weeks notice and 3 days to appeal the decision, in fairness their sick record is abysmal but have all been covered by a doctors line.

Any one have any idea how these appeals go and what are there chances?

Have they been issued a stage 3? im not sure how this works, i am on a stage 2, so that means if i go out again for more than 10 days im on a stage 3? What if illness prevents a person from going back to get a stage 3??

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 05 Apr 2008, 17:16

The stage 3 has been issued, not the first unfortunately

Post by **dvbuk55** » 05 Apr 2008, 17:54

simply_the_best wrote:The stage 3 has been issued, not the first unfortunately

It's unfortunate but I'd suggest it's good night Vienna.

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 05 Apr 2008, 18:15

dvbuk55 wrote:
It's unfortunate but I'd suggest it's good night Vienna.

Looks like it Bud, im gutted for the person involved

johnnyp · Post by **johnnyp** » 05 Apr 2008, 19:17

simply_the_best wrote:This happened to some one at my work today, they have been given 7 weeks notice and 3 days to appeal the decision, in fairness their sick record is abysmal but have all been covered by a doctors line.

Any one have any idea how these appeals go and what are there chances?

Im no expert mate ,but tell your friend not to give up yet.Get that appeal in now and get the area rep on the case.I have known members in the past to win appeals and get there job back by either errors in the procedure or the member has an underlying medical condition with DDA cover etc.

johnsonrmc · Post by **johnsonrmc** » 05 Apr 2008, 19:19

simply_the_best wrote:The stage 3 has been issued, not the first unfortunately

Very unlikely to win an appeal, anyone on a stage 2 need to be very careful, stage 3 means in most cases Goodbye!

Post by **Carnoustie** » 05 Apr 2008, 19:53

simply_the_best wrote:The stage 3 has been issued, not the first unfortunately

How long since he / she survived the previous Stage 3 ?

If it's less than 12 months, RM will feel justified in believing they've given this person a 'second chance' already. I wouldn't put money on an appeal being successful, I'm afraid.

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 05 Apr 2008, 20:00

Carnoustie wrote: How long since he / she survived the previous Stage 3 ?

If it's less than 12 months, RM will feel justified in believing they've given this person a 'second chance' already. I wouldn't put money on an appeal being successful, I'm afraid.

It's been about 3 years since the last one, she has had some horrible sick periods since then, all doc certified.

Post by **Carnoustie** » 05 Apr 2008, 20:32

simply_the_best wrote:
It's been about 3 years since the last one, she has had some horrible sick periods since then, all doc certified.

Then I feel every sympathy for her. The attendance procedure is not supposed to punish people for being ill. We all know it was designed to correct or discourage the kind of behaviour where an individual has a pattern of short-duration absences, none of which or few of which are covered by a doctor's note. I have long argued that the system needs to be changed somehow, to give less weight to certificated absences because what RM are really after with the attendance procedure is to avoid paying people sick pay when they believe there is doubt about whether they are truly sick. (Don't believe that rubbish that Managers are obliged to parrot about 'all absences are treated as genuine')

My argument is that absences covered by a doctor's note do not fall into this category, surely ? Unless RM believe that there's an army of GPs out there who'll sign you off work at the drop of a hat ? So why do certificated absences count as heavily towards potential dismissal, when - for example - another individual might repeatedly take Mondays off cos they've had a skinful the night before, and never produce a doctor's note for any of their 'illnesses' ?

Stormproof · Post by **Stormproof** » 06 Apr 2008, 06:02

Are all the absences related? I went sick last September (admitted to hospital), went back to work after a month, attended a Stage 3 interview, told the DOM I would be going off again for an operation in December. Stage 3 not issued. Went off again in December for my operation asked to attend yet another Stage 3 interview on my return, as it had been mentioned in previous interview I would be going sick again the DOM could'nt do much except quote how much I had cost the business, again Stage 3 not issued. The person needs a good rep in with them.

greynut · Post by **greynut** » 06 Apr 2008, 10:09

I alway find that if the guys sick record is so bad that somewhere along the line the line manager has messed up a pretty difficult return to work procedure.

We had a guy who had the worst sick record I have ever seen anywhere. He argued that one of the sicknesses was work related and the line manager could not remember. So it was thrown out and this blokes back on a stage 2.

To be honest as well, I think we all know whos sick record is a con and those that are genuine. And in my time I have found the managers to be pretty OK with it. But it seems it is the DOM's who are now under pressure to issue RTU's.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 06 Apr 2008, 10:36

greynut wrote:I alway find that if the guys sick record is so bad that somewhere along the line the line manager has messed up a pretty difficult return to work procedure.

We had a guy who had the worst sick record I have ever seen anywhere. He argued that one of the sicknesses was work related and the line manager could not remember. So it was thrown out and this blokes back on a stage 2.

To be honest as well, I think we all know whos sick record is a con and those that are genuine. And in my time I have found the managers to be pretty OK with it. But it seems it is the DOM's who are now under pressure to issue RTU's.

Spot on Greynuts. We've had two cases recently where in the past the sickness absences would have been written off as genuine and no further action taken. However BOTH have been sacked with 4 weeks notice - both have appealed of course and there is a possibility one may be successful but there is a very harsh regime on sickness absence. It's worrying from the point of view that we are now going to be working to 65 and I can speak from personal experience when I say that I have had a series of ailments over the last 4 years and I am only 62.

kay_thebigbird · Post by **kay_thebigbird** » 06 Apr 2008, 13:06

simply_the_best wrote:This happened to some one at my work today, they have been given 7 weeks notice and 3 days to appeal the decision, in fairness their sick record is abysmal but have all been covered by a doctors line.

Any one have any idea how these appeals go and what are there chances?

If she is fulltime with long service in Appeals procedure she got no chance, tell her to start looking for new job.

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 06 Apr 2008, 13:59

kay_thebigbird wrote:
If she is fulltime with long service in Appeals procedure she got no chance, tell her to start looking for new job.

Thats what i was thinking unfortunately, she is taking it on the chin though and we can but hope

We will have a right good piss up on her last day if it comes to it

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