Who believes mail volumes are falling?

[rhino49]

I just pray that the pie eater doesn't tackle negotations as misinformed as many seem to be. Mail volume is what WE process - not what we handle, and it is down. Still, put your name down for the union neotiating team- you've nowt to lose.

Does "what we process" include the hundreds of large flats that we receive every day without the stamps being canceled on them - it seems to me that every time we have a busy day this particularly large portion of my offices delivery load seems to have bypassed any machinery other than the delivery vehicle on it's way to us - so much so that I have given up trying to cancel stamps myself as it is so time consuming.

[dogfood]

WTF is the difference between what we handle and what we process?

[Night Tonic]

Difference is in what RM handles exclusively and what it does not - like DSA. 13p a go is half what we'd get from normal stamp price. We could deliver twice as much and still be getting the same money. This is why when they calculate volume, they're looking at what WE do - not what TNT does. You couldn't calculate profit on quantity - no more than you could in a sweet factory by counting everything that went by. It stands to reason that the stawberry creams go for more than the marshmallows.

[Tman]

According to the figures given to us by the managers in my DO our volumes have GONE UP BY 10000 per day (average) since SDD, now if that means that my volumes are falling then I'd like whatever you're smoking.

But this "my DO" is merely one step up from "my bag". We're talking mail volumes UK wide.
Equally, how long has the increase been for?
As it's an average, presumably some days there's been no increase, and some days heavy traffic? So has there been an ad campaign in you area recently, and this is the bulk-posting follow-up?
Without an in-depth analysis, nothing can be gleaned from your comment.

Anyway, how come now you believe your DOM when he says volumes have gone up, but think he's lying when he states they've gone down? Oh, I know, "because my bag's heavier..............."

[DGP1]

According to the figures given to us by the managers in my DO our volumes have GONE UP BY 10000 per day (average) since SDD, now if that means that my volumes are falling then I'd like whatever you're smoking.

But this "my DO" is merely one step up from "my bag". We're talking mail volumes UK wide.

No, all I can go by is the evidence in my DO and what others are telling me (apart from you of course).

Equally, how long has the increase been for?

It's been a gradual increase since SDD (just like I said)

As it's an average, presumably some days there's been no increase, and some days heavy traffic? So has there been an ad campaign in you area recently, and this is the bulk-posting follow-up?

We were told what our traffic was at SDD (it's how everything was worked out at the time) and now it's averaging 10000 items more per day.

Without an in-depth analysis, nothing can be gleaned from your comment.

The only comments from you are that there is less going through your machine and your in-depth analysis is there is a reduction in mail.

Anyway, how come now you believe your DOM when he says volumes have gone up, but think he's lying when he states they've gone down?

The traffic figures are done by postmen who weigh in the mail in the morning and work out the volumes from that.

[Tman]

]

Without an in-depth analysis, nothing can be gleaned from your comment.[/b]

The only comments from you are that there is less going through your machine and your in-depth analysis is there is a reduction in mail.

I don't have "a machine" but a whole Mail Centre's worth, with stats of traffic, rejects, etc going back maybe ten years.
That, the earlier finish for operators, less run-time during the week, RM's statement re traffic reduction, the Direct Mail Marketing Board (or whatever thier real title is) saying that admail companies are failing out of love with mailshot advertising, the financial papers saying that due to the economic slow-down businesses are spending less now that for years on direct mail advertising, means I don't need to do any sort of analysis to find out the current state of mail traffic.
Thing is though, apparently they're all wrong. Old Bill the bag-weigher in some DO somewhere says the bags are getting heavier, and who could argue with logic like that?

[Night Tonic]

Old Bill the bag-weigher -like the old man in all the old Will Hay films - lol

[Tman]

And just like the bloke in the Will Hay films, I bet Old Bill's been saying the same old cliche every day for the last 50 years..............

[Phantom]

]

Without an in-depth analysis, nothing can be gleaned from your comment.[/b]

The only comments from you are that there is less going through your machine and your in-depth analysis is there is a reduction in mail.

I don't have "a machine" but a whole Mail Centre's worth, with stats of traffic, rejects, etc going back maybe ten years.
That, the earlier finish for operators, less run-time during the week, RM's statement re traffic reduction, the Direct Mail Marketing Board (or whatever thier real title is) saying that admail companies are failing out of love with mailshot advertising, the financial papers saying that due to the economic slow-down businesses are spending less now that for years on direct mail advertising, means I don't need to do any sort of analysis to find out the current state of mail traffic.
Thing is though, apparently they're all wrong. Old Bill the bag-weigher in some DO somewhere says the bags are getting heavier, and who could argue with logic like that?

I've already told you i've gone from delivering around 900 items a day to 1200, so this is an increase and how do i know, i've bloody counted them, let me know what part of this statement you don't understand.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Lets be honest Tman it is a little high handed to casually dismiss the delivery postman's view just because it doesn't agree with your views or stats.But why is there such a difference in perception and stats - that's the thing no one can explain - deliveries are heavier my own weight stats and experience prove that yet volume is down - does anybody have an explanation.



Could it be that with PIP the base weight has gone from 60g to 100g an increase of 66% - could this mean that marketeers and businesses have increased the weight of their mailings. This would explain heavier bags in my case but also falling traffic. Another case of lack of foresight, perhaps we are carrying more and as with DSA we are getting paid less.

[Night Tonic]

Last bit is about right TBT. The origins of the volume up/down is when posties feel that Rm are pulling the wool over our eyes in terms of money being made. When RM look at profits, they don't go by how much stuff is going through the system. For one thing, if they did, Old Bill would be gainfully employed for starters. Technically DSA gives us twice as much work to do - for the same amount money (ie we lose 50% of the profit) but without DSA (and junk), we'd be delivering little else but parcels. DSA itself is dropping too and with the new junk mal rules coming in, that too will drop.

Tman is right, mal volume is going down and hard to know how we can stop that. DSA inflates it a bit but as i say, we have to shift twice as much to bring in the same amount.

[Night Tonic]

For reference, this is Old Bill who weighs the bags:



Mail volume will keep falling unless everyone gets bored with email or we have a power cut for a year or two. DSA pads the situation but even that will dwindle too.

[kingtubby]

The term 'mail volume' is a poor one to describe what Night Tonic and Tman are claiming - which seems to be that RM's capacity to receive income/profit from mail is decreasing.
RM do at times like to use ambiguous terminology in their efforts to corral us into there way of thinking...

[Tman]

="TrueBlueTerrier"]Lets be honest Tman it is a little high handed to casually dismiss the delivery postman's view just because it doesn't agree with your views or stats.

Then obviously you, along with several others, can't see the point I've been trying (and obviously failing!) to get across all along, namely "my bag being heavier = RM's claim of falling mail traffic is false", but that was the original premis of this thread.
There could be many explanations (and some have been suggested) as to why postman's bags weigh more now, but that doesn't mean traffic hasn't dropped.
It's not a simple cause/effect argument. Unless or until people understand the hows whys and wherefores of RMs thinking, how can they mount an effective defence against further cuts or reductions in terms and conditions?
Sorry if you feel it's high-handed, but there's only so many times you can be told you're wrong (when I see the current stats every working day) merely because someone's bag weighs more now.

[DGP1]

="TrueBlueTerrier"]Lets be honest Tman it is a little high handed to casually dismiss the delivery postman's view just because it doesn't agree with your views or stats.

Then obviously you, along with several others, can't see the point I've been trying (and obviously failing!) to get across all along, namely "my bag being heavier = RM's claim of falling mail traffic is false", but that was the original premis of this thread.
There could be many explanations (and some have been suggested) as to why postman's bags weigh more now, but that doesn't mean traffic hasn't dropped.
It's not a simple cause/effect argument. Unless or until people understand the hows whys and wherefores of RMs thinking, how can they mount an effective defence against further cuts or reductions in terms and conditions?
Sorry if you feel it's high-handed, but there's only so many times you can be told you're wrong (when I see the current stats every working day) merely because someone's bag weighs more now.

A lot of people have heavier bag these days, so what your saying is because we carry more but the computer tells you that there is less then you must be right because the computer is never wrong. (RIRO)