packet template into operation now

[ronpetetrevchris]

Hi
I know the packet template has been mentioned in other forums, but this is being used in our office at the moment. This is a f***ing joke, the thing is just a bit smaller than a shoe box. The packets can be rotated and squeezed through any way they can ( i know this as i saw my dom do it) i also saw a dom tell a member of staff that a 4ft pole could go to the walker because it fit through lengthways.

The dom has been asked by union officials and he has told them that this is a national thing and evryone is using it, but this guy tells more lies than pinnoccio,so im on here checking.

Do any other offices actually use this picece of s**t or not. Really need your help with this one, its turning the office on its head. oh and by the way if you cant fit them in your bag then take two bags, argue the toss with yoiur driver or dead walk back to your pouch box and redeliver just packets. :cfo :cfo :lfo

[TrueBlueTerrier]

We have it and are meant to use it but we use common sense and it seems to work.

My counter argument about the 2 bags and dead walking would be - "OK I'll do that but that means I can't finish without going over - as I can't work overtime today because of prior commitments what would you prefer me to do" - and then stick to that ultimatum when they try to pressure you into going over. As Alan Leighton said "We only want you to work the hours your paid for and overtime is not and will not be compulsory".


Don't forget the Golden Rule - make sure you have a witness to everything.

[ronpetetrevchris]

Comon sense has gone out of the window where this thing is concerned. Regardless of weight, number of items (as long as each one goes through individually) or anythkig else this is STRICTLY enforced.Someone tried the prior arrangement thing last week and was told i have no one to cover the mail you leave and then hid himself away in an out of bounds office

[AndyK]

The packets can be rotated and squeezed through any way they can ( i know this as i saw my dom do it) i also saw a dom tell a member of staff that a 4ft pole could go to the walker because it fit through lengthways.

Your being told some bull, the packet template is for use only were you have a dispute about size and the packets MUST fit ALL THREE ways or they are for van delivery.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Comon sense has gone out of the window where this thing is concerned. Regardless of weight, number of items (as long as each one goes through individually) or anythkig else this is STRICTLY enforced.Someone tried the prior arrangement thing last week and was told i have no one to cover the mail you leave and then hid himself away in an out of bounds office

Get the union rep involved, Area if you don't have a local rep, as so long as you work to your time he cannot force you to do overtime and its Managements problem to sort it out. In our DO managers regularly go out on deliveries when people cut off. Also if he refuses to cover and you have to do overtime, log it (so he can see as well) and use it if they ever sack you. It falls under the auspices of "Constructive Dismissal" if you are being forced to work over, and this works even if you are sacked or leave as a consequence of this.

It might even be covered under Constructive Dismissal even if you are sacked on an unrelated matter but I am not sure about this and Solicitors advice would be highly recommended before proceeding down this particular road.


Bottom Line is you work to your time and as long as you tell them you cannot complete (with witnesses) its managements problem to sort it not yours. If he walks away then I would go and see another rep or even another Manager, he is abrogating his responsibility and IMO should be sacked if he does this regularly. I know it can be difficult and worrying, it was the first time I refused to work over, but in the long run it is worth it, they soon realise you are being honest and that they cannot treat you this way.


Work to Live - Not - Live to Work.

[ronpetetrevchris]

Thanks for your advice, it really helps. One more question though, you keep talking about overtime, this guy who had previous appointments, was told its flexibility that you are expected and should have factored into your appointment the fact that you may have to go up to 30mins over each day, no overtime was offedered at any point anyway. This guys commitment is a long standing one involing a child, yet he was actually told by the manager what do you want me to do?

These are the problems we are having at our office at the mo, the fing template, and managers that couldnt give a flying f**k.

Also is it legal to start a petition in your office to get a manager removed? We are told it is inciting ilegal indutrial action, and so the cwu rep is reluctant, but i thought it was a right to petition,. I only ask because you seem to know your onions, fancy coming to our hell hole?

[hooniebagoonie]

we had one in our office....it caused more problems than i care to mention so we threw it away and just use common sense.....if you dont take the p1ss with your drivers they are more likely to help with packets that are borderline
:lfo :cfo

[TrueBlueTerrier]

OK I was trying to make it as understandable as possible however to make sure everyone knows where I am coming from here are the definitions of the types of dismissal which are deemed wrong. I did also add that bit about I was unsure and to check so there was no need to be condescending about it. Mind you it seems as though you cant help this facet of your personality so I wont take it personally.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/ ... G_10026696

What is constructive dismissal?

If you're forced to quit your job because of the way you're treated, it's called constructive dismissal. Although there's no actual dismissal by the employer, the end result is the same as if you'd been sacked. It's often very hard to prove that your employer's behaviour was so bad as to make you leave, so you should get legal advice before leaving your job.

The reason for leaving your job must be serious - there must be a fundamental breach of your contract. Examples include:

* a serious breach of your contract (eg not paying you or suddenly demoting you for no reason)
* forcing you to accept unreasonable changes to your conditions of employment without your agreement (eg suddenly telling you to work in another town, or making you work night shifts when your contract is only for day work)
* bullying, harassment or violence against you by work colleagues
* making you work in dangerous conditions

The employer's breach of contract may be one serious incident or the last in a series of less important incidents that are serious when taken together.

* More about changing employment conditions

Unfair and wrongful dismissal

A constructive dismissal may be both an 'unfair' and a 'wrongful' dismissal. An unfair dismissal is where the employer sacks you (or forces you to leave) without good reason or fails to follow proper procedures. Wrongful dismissal is when your employer breaches your contract in dismissing you (or forcing you to leave).

You can make both an unfair constructive dismissal claim and a wrongful constructive dismissal claim as long as you qualify to do so. In most cases you need at least a year's service before you can make an unfair dismissal claim.

A wrongful dismissal claim is made in the same way as a breach of contract claim. A claim of unfair constructive dismissal is handled in the same way as any other unfair dismissal claim except that there is more likely to be a dispute about whether there was a dismissal (or behaviour that forced you to leave) or not.

Compensation for unfair dismissal is meant to put you financially where you would have been if you hadn't had to resign. Compensation for wrongful dismissal usually only covers your pay for the notice period. With either claim you won't get compensation for hurt feelings.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Thanks for your advice, it really helps. One more question though, you keep talking about overtime, this guy who had previous appointments, was told its flexibility that you are expected and should have factored into your appointment the fact that you may have to go up to 30mins over each day, no overtime was offedered at any point anyway. This guys commitment is a long standing one involing a child, yet he was actually told by the manager what do you want me to do?

These are the problems we are having at our office at the mo, the fing template, and managers that couldnt give a flying f**k.

Also is it legal to start a petition in your office to get a manager removed? We are told it is inciting ilegal indutrial action, and so the cwu rep is reluctant, but i thought it was a right to petition,. I only ask because you seem to know your onions, fancy coming to our hell hole?

The 30 minutes if it has been agreed at your office is fine, however the manager has clearly forgotten that if they use this then they can only make you work a total of 40 hours for the week - so if you go over or come in early (when instructed not voluntarily) then they should let you finish 30 minutes earlier at some other point in the working week. Basically he is using the rules to benefit him, so use them to benefit you.

Next time he mentions 30 minute flex (or whatever he calls it) ask him when you will get the 30 minutes back.

[sevenandseven]

I'm sure that on this site there was some official Royal Mail document relating to packet templates which stated the maximum size of packets to be carried in pouches was 200 x 200 x 400 mm or 310 x 100 x 400mm and that they cannot be forced through the template diagonally or any other way than flat. I made a note of the dimensions but cannot find the link. Perhaps someone else can find the link back to the original item.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I'm sure that on this site there was some official Royal Mail document relating to packet templates which stated the maximum size of packets to be carried in pouches was 200 x 200 x 400 mm or 310 x 100 x 400mm and that they cannot be forced through the template diagonally or any other way than flat. I made a note of the dimensions but cannot find the link. Perhaps someone else can find the link back to the original item.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... kets+pouch

[shelanda]

We use common sense, and what everyone should remember is if customers out ( we have more and more packets) where do we put all docket lefts we are not donkeys (yes I know management think we are) we have to be realistic about the amount we take out in case we have to bring them back. Rep should argue this!

[johnnyp]

Hi
I know the packet template has been mentioned in other forums, but this is being used in our office at the moment. This is a f***ing joke, the thing is just a bit smaller than a shoe box. The packets can be rotated and squeezed through any way they can ( i know this as i saw my dom do it) i also saw a dom tell a member of staff that a 4ft pole could go to the walker because it fit through lengthways.

The dom has been asked by union officials and he has told them that this is a national thing and evryone is using it, but this guy tells more lies than pinnoccio,so im on here checking.

Do any other offices actually use this picece of s**t or not. Really need your help with this one, its turning the office on its head. oh and by the way if you cant fit them in your bag then take two bags, argue the toss with yoiur driver or dead walk back to your pouch box and redeliver just packets. :cfo :cfo :lfo

At our place we use it as a guideline and our Dom is very much on the walking posties side.If the drivers dont take them then the Dom goes out in a van later on.Top Bloke

[apple]

just common sense really, we have the template think it's in the bin now though, i do my walk then i have to do packets for 2 rounds later, if your a walker just don't take the piss and the packet guy should help you out, somedays i have thought god how small is that packet, but somedays we have that much mail there is no room for packets, if one of the walking guys comes to me and says "look i know it's a bit small but i have loads of mail" then no probs i will help out

the problem comes when the trust breaks down and either side takes the piss

[johnnyp]

just common sense really, we have the template think it's in the bin now though, i do my walk then i have to do packets for 2 rounds later, if your a walker just don't take the piss and the packet guy should help you out, somedays i have thought god how small is that packet, but somedays we have that much mail there is no room for packets, if one of the walking guys comes to me and says "look i know it's a bit small but i have loads of mail" then no probs i will help out

the problem comes when the trust breaks down and either side takes the piss

Thats how it should be mate If everyone worked like that then happy days Trouble is it dont,theres not enough people who think like you do and dont want a bit of give and take.Well they better start to as its all written over the agreement.