seniority

[luckyllama]

seniority isnt fair its just discrimination and wrong

[lovejoy]

seniority isnt fair its just discrimination and wrong

Says someone without any i'd suggest??

[axeman]

Do llama's have one or two HUMPS or just one big one ? from someone with quite a bit of seniority and done the years to get it !!!

[baldrick]

seniority isnt fair its just discrimination and wrong

Why???

[k979aaa]

seniority isnt fair its just discrimination and wrong

And what would one suggest in it's place!. HOW FAR ONE CAN SHOVE THEIR TONGUE UP THE GAFFA'S RECTRUM!.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

seniority isnt fair its just discrimination and wrong

Why is it - what would you have in place that would not be susceptible to cronyism or abuse. Although it is an imperfect system at least everyone knows where they stand.

I would be most interested if anyone has a better system which could replace seniority, and yet still protect and treat everyone fairly.

PS as stated before I am 45 and have 5 years seniority. A mate I work with is 32 and has 16 years seniority - Fair Yep I think so and it shows that its not based on age but on loyalty.

[trythat]

seniority isnt fair its just discrimination and wrong

Why is it - what would you have in place that would not be susceptible to cronyism or abuse. Although it is an imperfect system at least everyone knows where they stand.

I would be most interested if anyone has a better system which could replace seniority, and yet still protect and treat everyone fairly.

PS as stated before I am 45 and have 5 years seniority. A mate I work with is 32 and has 16 years seniority - Fair Yep I think so and it shows that its not based on age but on loyalty.

I used to think it was loyalty, but I've come to realise more lately, it's really more about stupidity

[janthepostie]

I cant believe this topic still keeps coming up. How many of those against seniority would let me take their place at the front of a queue for tickets etc- or would you say " Hold on a minute i was here first." End of story.

very good analogy..but would you let the guy at the front of the queue just stand their and take all the tickets from now till dooms day.is it ok for him to set up camp at the front and cherry pick everything that gets sold.

so its ok cos hes been doing the same job for 30years for him to cheery pick the best holiday times ,get the best duties and who knows what else .yet hes probably the guy who does the job least well,who cuts every corner works all the scams and cuts off every day just to be a coont

I personally believe that seniority should be the way, after all if somebody has been in the job 10, 20 or 30 years then they deserve to get the pick of holidays and walks, we all have to start somewhere and one day we will be near the top of the seniority list and getting to choose the best holidays and walks but until that day (long way off yet ) i'm happy to let them have the choice.

[brothermagrew]

Have a mate at work who has been in our delivery office a lot longer than some of the others. His prob is that some of those who were employed after him were given a contract before him. Question being who is thew more senior person my mate or the others who were given contracts beforemy mate.

Union Area IR Rep informs him that he is the senior man as seniority starts from the day you were employed. Whilst Acting DOM is adament that those that came after him and were given contracts at the time are the more senior.

Mate does have a contract now but he wants to know one way or the other. Any knowledgeable brothers and sisters out there please advise.

[pinstripe]

I have worked in the private sector where seniority was not used. In most instances the longer an employee had been with the company the more senior position they held, eg, senior assistant, supervisor or head of department. These positions paid more and were allocated based on experience. So an employee with say, 10 years experience and loyalty with the company would be at least a senior assistant and would be paid more than a relative newcomer.
In RM we don't have these different grades. A postman with 30 years experience is paid the same rate as a postman with 1 years. The experience he has accumulated and the loyalty he has shown over the years is not repaid with any financial reward (except a few more days holiday per year, and rightly so) and although he is infinitely more qualified to do the job he is not given any more responsibility. In my opinion seniority is not based on age but experience and any decent company repays the loyalty of its experienced staff.
During the course of a year there are very few examples of when seniority is used, in my office it is only used in allocation of duties where there are more than one applicant. It is not used for choosing holidays, but if it was, it would still be fair. In most offices of approx 80-100 or more staff, you are going to have about 5-10% of staff on holiday at any one time, so it will only be the peak holiday times during the summer that there would be any problem with getting the weeks you want. I don't know of any industry or company and I've worked for quite a few, where a relative newcomer can dictate their own terms and conditions and the terms of their colleagues. Seniority is fair, it is based on experience not age. Before anyone asks, I've only done seven and a half years, so I'm nowhere near the top of the seniority list, in fact I'm on the lower half of it and I think that seniority is the fairest and simplest way.
I can't understand someone complaining about the benefits that an employee has built up over 10, 20, 30 years before they have even started. It seems to be a very selfish attitude and they are only concerned about themselves, perhaps they should think before complaining too much, any benefits they have at the moment were fought for and won by the very people they are complaining about.

[janthepostie]

I have worked in the private sector where seniority was not used. In most instances the longer an employee had been with the company the more senior position they held, eg, senior assistant, supervisor or head of department. These positions paid more and were allocated based on experience. So an employee with say, 10 years experience and loyalty with the company would be at least a senior assistant and would be paid more than a relative newcomer.
In RM we don't have these different grades. A postman with 30 years experience is paid the same rate as a postman with 1 years. The experience he has accumulated and the loyalty he has shown over the years is not repaid with any financial reward (except a few more days holiday per year, and rightly so) and although he is infinitely more qualified to do the job he is not given any more responsibility. In my opinion seniority is not based on age but experience and any decent company repays the loyalty of its experienced staff.
During the course of a year there are very few examples of when seniority is used, in my office it is only used in allocation of duties where there are more than one applicant. It is not used for choosing holidays, but if it was, it would still be fair. In most offices of approx 80-100 or more staff, you are going to have about 5-10% of staff on holiday at any one time, so it will only be the peak holiday times during the summer that there would be any problem with getting the weeks you want. I don't know of any industry or company and I've worked for quite a few, where a relative newcomer can dictate their own terms and conditions and the terms of their colleagues. Seniority is fair, it is based on experience not age. Before anyone asks, I've only done seven and a half years, so I'm nowhere near the top of the seniority list, in fact I'm on the lower half of it and I think that seniority is the fairest and simplest way.
I can't understand someone complaining about the benefits that an employee has built up over 10, 20, 30 years before they have even started. It seems to be a very selfish attitude and they are only concerned about themselves, perhaps they should think before complaining too much, any benefits they have at the moment were fought for and won by the very people they are complaining about.

Well said, I agree with you 100%..

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Have a mate at work who has been in our delivery office a lot longer than some of the others. His prob is that some of those who were employed after him were given a contract before him. Question being who is thew more senior person my mate or the others who were given contracts before my mate.

Union Area IR Rep informs him that he is the senior man as seniority starts from the day you were employed. Whilst Acting DOM is adament that those that came after him and were given contracts at the time are the more senior.

Mate does have a contract now but he wants to know one way or the other. Any knowledgeable brothers and sisters out there please advise.

The way I understand it seniority starts from when you are employed by Royal Mail. Otherwise if you go from a P/T contract to a F/T contract then your seniority would have to restart all over again if they base it on when you got a contract.

I do hope I am right and await clarification if I am not.

[axeman]

belive that if your part time and then go to full time it's a different seniority list as theres one for p/t and one for f/t. After all it comes down to the fact that if you were p/t and others went f/t before you obviously you wanted to remain as p/t ? (may well be down to preferences at the time) but you have to have some form of rules inplace and the best has to be seniority in my opinion as everyone will have a bite of the 'cherry' at some time

[slave]

Seniority is great, long may it live!!

It's no longer used in picking holidays in my ofifce (nor my previous office) - I've witnessed strange rotating systems, first come first served etc.. All with their own faults.
Picking duties is still based on seniority and that's the best way, apart from a few extra holidays theres little else to reward long service!

When I started I knew it would be a while before I had a chance at getting a half-decent walk, got there in the end - can't see why these new guys have a problem with it, if you don't like it p*** off and find another job and then see how long it takes you to climb the ladder on that job and reap any kind of 'benefits'.
Unfortuantely I moved office a while back and despite having more seniority than a fair number of people I am stuck as a reserve as the management are not putting any duties up for signing because they want to keep them for the precious part-timers. I think it's a case of keeping p/t's on the same duty rather than pi**ing them about swapping duties which they would probably get sick of rather quickly and leave!
I don't like it but that's the way i is - rather than whinging and whining like some people out there I just get on with it and bide my time!!

[baldrick]

Have a mate at work who has been in our delivery office a lot longer than some of the others. His prob is that some of those who were employed after him were given a contract before him. Question being who is thew more senior person my mate or the others who were given contracts beforemy mate.

Union Area IR Rep informs him that he is the senior man as seniority starts from the day you were employed. Whilst Acting DOM is adament that those that came after him and were given contracts at the time are the more senior.

Mate does have a contract now but he wants to know one way or the other. Any knowledgeable brothers and sisters out there please advise.

Way Forward
Section 6
Seniority:
13.6 All service within an appropriate grade, whether on permanent or temporary basis, will count for
seniority purposes, with the exception of any periods worked on a casual contract, or during a career
break or sabbatical.