A job for your son or daughter at TNT?

[plodsie]

Why do I get the feeling that something like this will happen here??

ARTICLE FROM HERE, 28/11/2006

Union Alleges "Child Labor" in Push for Better Wages

A large German trade union is accusing the Dutch logistics firm TNT Post of trying to take over the market using "child labor." But TNT is technically within its rights. The allegations play into the union's efforts to secure better wages for postal workers at the Deutsche Post.


Germany's largest services union is accusing the logistics firm TNT Post of using "child labor" and "low-budget wages to secure large market shares in the postal market," Ver.di deputy director Rolf Büttner said on Tuesday. TNT Post Holding, the German branch of the formerly state-run Dutch postal service, is currently running an advertising campaign in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia to attract 13 to 18-year-old delivery workers.

The teenagers would be responsible for delivering junk mail -- including catalogs, brochures and pamphlets. Büttner first told the German daily Die Welt on Monday that TNT's executives had "crossed the line." In a subsequent press release, he described the business plan as an "outright scandal" and indicated that the Dutch logistics firm also has long-term plans to employ underage workers for the delivery of regular mail. TNT rejected these allegations as wholly inaccurate, news agency DPA reported on Tuesday.

"We work with adolescents aged 13 and up when the parents give their permission," TNT CEO Roland Jager told the newspaper. Under German law, such a delivery job is permissible for 13-year-old minors, provided it does not entail more than two hours of daily work between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m., does not interfere with school and the parents give the go-ahead. Additional exceptions also apply for certain types of activity in the performing arts and for delivery jobs. Kids working for TNT would earn between €10 and €15 per dayshift, Jager said.

Working for "pocket money"

By comparison, German postal workers earn an average hourly salary of €10.54, including benefits. Büttner complains that "employment contracts based on negotiated wages and social insurance contributions cannot possibly compete with pocket-money salaries." In addition to being deputy director of one of Germany's largest trade unions, Büttner is also deputy chairman of the supervisory board at Deutsche Post, the formerly state-controlled German postal service and TNT's immediate competitor.

TNT is Germany's second-largest postal service provider after Deutsche Post, and the Dutch enterprise has given its competitors a run for their money. The German business daily Handelsblatt reported on Tuesday that TNT plans to expand its express delivery operations in an effort to challenge DHL, a subsidiary of the privatized German postal service.

Büttner maintains that TNT's business strategy is unjust: "If child labor is henceforth going to be heralded as an occupational success, then we've really arrived in early capitalism." But the practice of employing minors for delivery jobs is not unusual, and a quick glance at job brokerage sites reveals that a number of marketing firms are offering delivery jobs to 13-year-olds. Thus, the row over the adolescent delivery workers in North Rhine-Westphalia seems to be part of a larger push by Ver.di and Deutsche Post to secure better working conditions for their employees. Specifically, Büttner wants the government to ensure a minimum wage for postal workers of €7.50 per hour.

[samm]

It's already done in this country. My son(13yo) had a paper round delivering the 'free' newspapers and included each week were upto 11 different leaflets/adverts/brochures. Occasionally he'd recieve 200 Ikea catalogues to deliver with his newspapers and leaflets.

[plodsie]

Maybe so, but I wouldn't put it past them to use kids for delivering actual mail!

[andy2007]

I hope that Leighton and Crozier don't start doing this with D2Ds. If they do, I certainly wouldn't put it past them to start replacing Posties with them. All they care about is how much money they can personally make with their Bonuses. After all, technically (although it IS stretching things a bit) they could be used to deliver the Mail too.

Hopefully the Government will see this story as a warning, and tighten up the Laws regarding this type of thing, to prevent it happening.

[F0zziebear]

TNT UK bought up some ciruclar distribution companies in 2006. At the time they delivered 'junk' mail that you might find in your newspaper or catalogues. This is nothing new as samm pointed out. We have had 13 yr olds upwards (possibly younger!) delivering newspapers and various items of 'junk' mail within them.

There is a fine line between what is considered direct mail and mail. The only difference as far as I'm aware is that 'junk' mail does not have an address. Potentially all of your D2D items could be done by kids from 13 yrs upwards. Some of you may cheer, but it is a highly profitable business for RM as they have a national workforce already delivering mail everyday. This means that they can throw-in 'junk' mail without incurring further costs and therefore it is pure profit. This is a great way of stopping a natrional workforce of kids delivering D2D.

Sometimes complaining about certain things can end up doing more damage. If a load of 13 yr olds did start delivering D2D then god only knows what might happen further down the line....

[BB brother]

If a bunch of 13 year olds did start delivering then it would cut out the middle man as most of it would be delivered straight into bins.

[jemima]

I delivered newspapers when I was 14, and I was glad to get some pocket money to spend. The papers had to be delivered before people left for work in the morning; every recipient would have complained if their paper hadn't arrived. Junk mail's different - I don't know how you'd check actual delivery rates if it were given to children - no-one's going to mind if they don't get their junk. A quick-thinking child would ask for payment from householders in return for keeping them junk-free.

[samm]

with ref to my son delivering his newspapers- Alot of the advertising may well have been untracable but with the likes of free samples and some of the brochures there was paperwork to complete ie, house number/street name and reason for non delivery...it could have been that the letterbox was far too slim; (the goods had to be delivered undamaged) or the occupant wouldn't/couldn't answer the door to recieve it. Should there have been any complaints from the public as to why they hadn't recieved something..his ass was always covered because of this paperwork.

The bloke who recruited my son told me of an instance where he'd gone to the home of a young lad/employee after numerous complaints of non delivery against him. He said that after the young man finally admitted to not delivering his papers he showed him where they were...a loft space groaning under the weight of approx 230 per week over 8 months.!!

I don't know that many young people who would be willing to swap their 'virtual reality' for one where they have to walk for miles and miles in the cold and the heaving rain..obviously there will be some children that will but surely for the majority there would have to be a gigantic carrot (or condemnation to death) dangled in front of them to get them to put down their x box live and pick up mail that carries legal responsibilities

[andy2007]

with ref to my son delivering his newspapers- Alot of the advertising may well have been untracable but with the likes of free samples and some of the brochures there was paperwork to complete ie, house number/street name and reason for non delivery...it could have been that the letterbox was far too slim; (the goods had to be delivered undamaged) or the occupant wouldn't/couldn't answer the door to recieve it. Should there have been any complaints from the public as to why they hadn't recieved something..his ass was always covered because of this paperwork.

The bloke who recruited my son told me of an instance where he'd gone to the home of a young lad/employee after numerous complaints of non delivery against him. He said that after the young man finally admitted to not delivering his papers he showed him where they were...a loft space groaning under the weight of approx 230 per week over 8 months.!!

I don't know that many young people who would be willing to swap their 'virtual reality' for one where they have to walk for miles and miles in the cold and the heaving rain..obviously there will be some children that will but surely for the majority there would have to be a gigantic carrot (or condemnation to death) dangled in front of them to get them to put down their x box live and pick up mail that carries legal responsibilities

I find this very worrying. First of all, the fact that young Teenagers are allowed to do jobs with Legal Responsibilities. And far more worryingly, that they are expected to knock on people's doors at that time in a morning.

When I was a teenager, it was simply a case of pushing Newspapers through letterboxes. But if that's what's involved nowadays, then we need to think very seriously about wether it is still a suitable job for young Teenagers to be doing.

[F0zziebear]

We seem to have focused on kids doing this. I've noticed many other types of people doing these jobs. Numerous pensioners, and others. Paper company's have a random list of addresses to call to see if the newspaper/junk has been delivered.

There is a balance to be struck. Does a company who wants to conduct a mail campaign send out mail to a whole street/area? or address it to specific people? the answer is surely dependent on the type of campaign. If the campaign manager is any good then they will choose the most effective approach.

We have to remember that most mail is now advertising and not social correspondence.

Remember that the only reason why these companies send out all this stuff is ultimately to drive revenue, and keeping the costs as low as possible.

As a postie one should be worried in some ways, but helps explain why D2D is so cheap and why the returns whilst small still add to your wage packet, and if anything this area will grow along with mail fulfillment whereas other traditional streams (1st & 2nd class) will continue to decline

[Wild Cat]

My local newspaper is delivered by teenagers and is usually packed with at least three or four D2D items.

I see nothing wrong with teenagers delivering this crap as we already have more than enough work to cope with what with packet traffic increasing exponentially.

Teenagers have to study and would not be able to compete by doing 8 hour plus shifts 5-6 days per week which is what is required to deliver regular mail and packets.

[F0zziebear]

Teenagers (13-18)
Students (18-21)
piecemeal workers (actors, mature students etc...)
Stay at home ppl (21+)
Early retirement ppl (40-65)
Later retirement pocket money (65+)

I don't have exact numbers at hand, but once you start adding these people up as an employment pool you can begin to see a possible alternative delivery force, who could deliver D2D, and other mailing campaigns, which could potentially undermine RM's core delivery workforce.

Where do you think the competition are going to get their posties from?

Competition will be delivering standard items, ones without handwriting, or dodgy envelope colours etc...
The only thing they'll compete with is the complexity of some address locations, but most are not complicated.

RM need to do everything in their power to prevent one of the big competitors setting up E2E otherwise all hell could break loose.

Personally speaking I think that happening is a long way off for a variety of reasons mentioned in previous posts.

Prophet of hope (occasionally)