seniority

[drevil1969uk]

Where do I start?

JANITOR If it has nothing to do with age, why based on my experience is that the case?

KROOSERMAN1802 I presume that the law would count as of now so if the same situation came up for me as before then it would be illegal therefore the current process is flawed, thats all im trying to say. Im younger than lots of people in my office but have more seniority than most.

DB1100 what numbers are you on about?

DVBUK55 when you looked in the seniority book everyone was put in order of the starters i started with, via there age. Therefore the best man for the job hadent got it. Besidies i was doing the job he did on part time hours for years, it became full time and came up, he got it. To your other point, what im saying is that the current system does not work as saying oh just bad luck, how many full time jobs are coming up at your mail centre?

VIGILANTE I am presuming that you believe i have very little seniority. The leave issue i think is another matter altogether, how the hell am i supposed to know when i want a holiday 18 months in advance?

DISGRUNTLEDPOSTIE1 Might have a better one than that, at my office its the casuals that have the easy jobs

[trythat]

I don't have a problem with seniority, what I have a problem with is people coming in just get put on a duty and are left there and the more useless they are the better they are treated (left on the easy duties, always getting their long weekends etc.)

We've had a problem like this for a while, I always complain about it, as I believe it is lack of training. They don't train enough people on duties, and then try to get people to work their rota week, the usual crap RM management really.

[janitor]

Where do I start?

JANITOR If it has nothing to do with age, why based on my experience is that the case?

KROOSERMAN1802 I presume that the law would count as of now so if the same situation came up for me as before then it would be illegal therefore the current process is flawed, thats all im trying to say. Im younger than lots of people in my office but have more seniority than most.

DB1100 what numbers are you on about?

DVBUK55 when you looked in the seniority book everyone was put in order of the starters i started with, via there age. Therefore the best man for the job hadent got it. Besidies i was doing the job he did on part time hours for years, it became full time and came up, he got it. To your other point, what im saying is that the current system does not work as saying oh just bad luck, how many full time jobs are coming up at your mail centre?

VIGILANTE I am presuming that you believe i have very little seniority. The leave issue i think is another matter altogether, how the hell am i supposed to know when i want a holiday 18 months in advance?

DISGRUNTLEDPOSTIE1 Might have a better one than that, at my office its the casuals that have the easy jobs

But this is not a problem with seniority, its a problem with age discrimination as we have already said seniority has nothing to do with age.

[drevil1969uk]

JANITOR as i said it does have plenty to do with age if seniority is using age to sort people, in my case it did therefore if thats a one off fair enough but i bet its not, so therefore it is a problem and a flaw in that system

[lovejoy]

On the back of the Age Discrimination act Royal Mail tried ( as they have been doing for years) to remove seniority. This matter was then taken up by the CWU and RM lawyers and it was proven that Seniority was in fact NOT DISCRIMINATORY!!

This is on the basis that the Act allows companies to reward employees for 'loyalty' and in this case years service is perceived as loyalty.

On the issue of age being deciding factor for people who joined on same date - this has now been changed. The deciding factor now is date of application to job followed by date of interview

In short it has been proven that seniority is perfectly legal

[janitor]

But seniority does not use age to sort things out, your manager did, therefore it is a problem with management, not seniority. I have missed out on 2 duties due to seniority i have lost none due to age, i still have no problem with people who came before me getting to pick the better duties, i under stood this when i took the job, as i said before if you have lost out on a full time post due to your age see your union rep, as that is age discrimination , nothing to do with seniority.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Where do I start?

JANITOR If it has nothing to do with age, why based on my experience is that the case?

Ummm IMHO Age has nothing to do with experience - I am in my mid forties with little or no seniority as I have only been with RM for 4 years, but a 32 year old is near the top of the list as he started from school 16 years ago. In this case the most experienced is 11 years younger than the older less experienced Postie. I think the same as most on here your problem has not been caused by the Seniority agreement but by the incorrect application of it by a manager.

[dvbuk55]

On the back of the Age Discrimination act Royal Mail tried ( as they have been doing for years) to remove seniority. This matter was then taken up by the CWU and RM lawyers and it was proven that Seniority was in fact NOT DISCRIMINATORY!!

This is on the basis that the Act allows companies to reward employees for 'loyalty' and in this case years service is perceived as loyalty.

On the issue of age being deciding factor for people who joined on same date - this has now been changed. The deciding factor now is date of application to job followed by date of interview

In short it has been proven that seniority is perfectly legal

Well apart from seniority as payment for loyalty perhaps we should be looking at some financial reward for years in service - perhaps someone could raise that at conference - it could even be made pensionable.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

On the back of the Age Discrimination act Royal Mail tried ( as they have been doing for years) to remove seniority. This matter was then taken up by the CWU and RM lawyers and it was proven that Seniority was in fact NOT DISCRIMINATORY!!

This is on the basis that the Act allows companies to reward employees for 'loyalty' and in this case years service is perceived as loyalty.

On the issue of age being deciding factor for people who joined on same date - this has now been changed. The deciding factor now is date of application to job followed by date of interview

In short it has been proven that seniority is perfectly legal

Well apart from seniority as payment for loyalty perhaps we should be looking at some financial reward for years in service - perhaps someone could raise that at conference - it could even be made pensionable.

The RAF Did that when I was in - it was a very small amount but was most welcome as it rewarded you for long and loyal service.

[dongash]

seniority is the the only fair way to do things. we have all started off at the bottom of the pile,and as people retire,leave etc you work your way up the the seniority list.if a fairer system existed i would be all for it!!!!

[drevil1969uk]

LOVEJOY are you saying lets say my fiance applied monday and joe bloggs applied tuesday thats the basis of seniority? my fiance would be more senior than joe? that seems a fairer system but what if they apply same day? is it the luck of who gets there letter opened first?

DVBUK55 I think thats a good idea and cant see why it wouldnt work, apart from the fact it would be a few extra pennies out of leightons pocket and he is as tight as a ducks arse

[lovejoy]

LOVEJOY are you saying lets say my fiance applied monday and joe bloggs applied tuesday thats the basis of seniority? my fiance would be more senior than joe? that seems a fairer system but what if they apply same day? is it the luck of who gets there letter opened first?

DVBUK55 I think thats a good idea and cant see why it wouldnt work, apart from the fact it would be a few extra pennies out of leightons pocket and he is as tight as a ducks arse

yeah thats what i'm saying. If you both applied same date then it goes to date of interview. If thats the same then its Alphebetical order of surname

[Big Daz]

seniority is the the only fair way to do things. we have all started off at the bottom of the pile,and as people retire,leave etc you work your way up the the seniority list.if a fairer system existed i would be all for it!!!!

Names out of the hat?

No such thing as the best jobs is there ?


Some of us like urban duties some prefer rural, some like firms, some like early starts some like a afternoon shift in the RLE

[dvbuk55]

LOVEJOY are you saying lets say my fiance applied monday and joe bloggs applied tuesday thats the basis of seniority? my fiance would be more senior than joe? that seems a fairer system but what if they apply same day? is it the luck of who gets there letter opened first?

DVBUK55 I think thats a good idea and cant see why it wouldnt work, apart from the fact it would be a few extra pennies out of leightons pocket and he is as tight as a ducks arse

In the past major companies DID pay loyalty payments to their staff but it seems to be a question now of take it or leave it. RM are in grave danger of losing experienced staff not only now but in the future simply by refusing to extend short hour contracts from 20,25,30 etc to full time contracts. What they don't seem to realise is that, although training is hardly ever in evidence now, there is a degree of on the job learning for which there is no substitute. You need a certain level of common sense to deal with the public and to work without supervision. By limiting contracts they actually limit the type of entrant they are able to attract. I point to the recent cases of dumped and stolen mail on the increase and the fact that many entrants don't last 12 months. This may be slightly off the direct subject of seniority for which I apologise.

[baldrick]

Well apart from seniority as payment for loyalty perhaps we should be looking at some financial reward for years in service - perhaps someone could raise that at conference - it could even be made pensionable.

They have that in the civil service - annual increments. But from what I've heard the Government is
refusing to pay them this year, though it's part of their employment contract, so I wouldn't expect they
would want to give them to us.
Personally I would like to be given more Annual Leave. I know we get extra leave at 5, 15 and 20 years,
but I think we should then get 1 more day for every year after that. There are some employers who do give that.
But again it's unlikely that our employer would want to give us any improvement.