There has been a lot of media coverage recently – both on tv and in newspapers - regarding the surcharging of counterfeit stamps. The decision has been made to change how the business surcharge Counterfeit Stamps. These changes include the introduction of an ‘Advisory’ label.
The current process of surcharging all mail found bearing counterfeit stamps attached will change from Monday 29th April - the two main changes are:
For items with a Counterfeit stamp that DO NOT have a return address, an Advisory Warning label will be attached, and no surcharge will be applied.
Items posted with a Counterfeit barcoded stamp AND a return address, will be surcharged back to the sender. There is no change to the actual Surcharge Fee being applied.
Please note, there will be a period when the advisory label will not be applied (currently being printed).
It is anticipated that this change will be in place for a minimum 3 months, however, this could be extended.
Further details we be sent to all CSP in the yellow surcharge pouches on Monday 29th April.
If you have any questions on surcharging please email RPUK@royalmail.com
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RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
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POSTMAN
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RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
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I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
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POSTMAN
- SITE ADMINISTRATOR
- Posts: 32751
- Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
- Gender: Male
Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consu ... leblowers/
Royal Mail staff are using Google to identify counterfeit stamps amid growing concerns letter recipients are being wrongly fined, whistleblowers have told The Telegraph.
Insiders have painted a bleak picture of chaos and confusion at delivery offices nationwide, with employees “embarrassed” and returning fines to sorting offices because they fear genuine stamps are being wrongly marked as counterfeit.
Despite Royal Mail previously insisting its processes were secure, whistleblowers have told The Telegraph:
Resources put towards identifying counterfeits have been “cut to the bone”, as Royal Mail prioritises parcels.
Delivery offices are being overwhelmed with fake stamp fines – one said it receives almost 500 in a week. Royal Mail has around 1,400 delivery offices nationwide.
Stamps flagged as counterfeit by the postal service’s revenue protection experts are being routinely questioned by staff and sent back for re-evaluation.
Frontline staff have received no training and are relying on the internet for guidance.
Others are ignoring decisions from Royal Mail’s revenue protection unit and wiping fines.
The claims pile more pressure on Royal Mail to give into demands for a full-scale investigation into the scourge of counterfeit stamps which it has so far resisted.
It comes as senior MPs have ordered Royal Mail to “stop penalising innocent people” and sort out its “mess” with both Labour and the Liberal Democrats calling for penalties to be halted pending a full investigation.
Royal Mail
One whistleblower claims Royal Mail prioritises parcels and special delivery post, with letters often 'sat at a delivery office or stuck somewhere'
One insider, who recently retired after 18 years at Royal Mail, said they had dealt with a “staggering” number of complaints from those who said they had bought their stamps at the Post Office.
They claim revenue protection – the department responsible for inspecting letters and distributing fines – are making “a lot of mistakes”.
Staff told The Telegraph they would routinely return letters with so-called counterfeit stamps to regional mail centres for review. In a number of cases, the fines were overturned.
“Within days, and I mean less than a week of barcoded stamps being out in public, we were getting surcharges saying the stamps were counterfeit. I remember thinking, this has just been issued, how can we be dealing with [this many] counterfeit stamps so quickly?”
Another member of frontline staff said they were “constantly” dealing with customer complaints. They said training on how to identify a counterfeit stamp or what to tell irate customers was “non-existent” and they had resorted to Googling how to spot a counterfeit stamp.
They said: “I can remember having to stand there with a colleague and we were Googling how to recognise a counterfeit stamp because we’d literally had no information dispersed from above.”
After raising the issue with their manager last August, they were told: “Well done for doing that and using your initiative.”
They claimed management was not interested in the rise of people being forced to pay fines to collect letters and if you mentioned it you were “usually met with a waved hand”.
How shiny is your stamp?
The first thing to do is to hold your stamp up to a light and see how the light reflects off the stamp. If the stamp appears to be very shiny, it can be a sign the stamp has been printed on different paper which would indicate a counterfeit.
Don’t rely on the feel of the barcode
Some stamp experts have claimed one method to check whether a stamp is genuine is to feel for a raised barcode. However Royal Mail pointed out the feel of a barcode, and whether it is raised or flat, is to do with the printing process.
Are the security ovals missing or do they look off-centre?
On a first class stamp, the roman numeral I in the bottom left corner should fit completely inside the oval. The outline of the oval should be cut perfectly between the “S” and the “T”.
Do the perforations look spiky?
A counterfeit stamp will have sharper or spikier perforations whereas a genuine stamp should appear to be more square like. However, spotting the difference can be incredibly difficult.
What colour is the logo?
If you have bought individual stamps, this step won’t apply to you. However, when purchasing a book of stamps or even a sheet of stamps, find the Forest Stewardship Council certification. On a genuine book of stamps, these will be turquoise.
Where did you buy your stamps?
Royal Mail says stamps should be bought from Post Offices, or if purchased online, from its own website
One whistleblower said they dealt with surcharges “on a case by case basis” and said colleagues would often not charge customers and let them have the post without paying the “silly” £5 fine.
They added they had sympathy for revenue protection staff who they claim are “misidentifying” stamps because Royal Mail has cut resources “to the bone”, and are prioritising parcels and special delivery post.
“Tracked items take priority because that’s the thing customers can see, they are the things they can go online and see if it’s sat at a delivery office or stuck somewhere. They know stamps are on the way out, they know letters are on the way out, they don’t care.”
The insider said letters spent “days and days” in delivery offices over Christmas because it was not a “priority”. “They had a paper trail, everything with stamps stayed there until they had to go and clear it.”
They added last Christmas they dealt with more than 60 letters a day which were accused of being counterfeit – almost 500 per week.
Another insider revealed stamps gifted to employees by Royal Mail at Christmas had been flagged as counterfeit.
They said their colleague had received a set of four barcoded Christmas stamps – one of which was deemed counterfeit and led to a family member having to pay a £5 surcharge.
The whistleblower said: “It is very strange. Unless Royal Mail are sending us counterfeit stamps, which of course they wouldn’t, there is definitely an issue.”
Last week, a senior executive at Royal Mail told The Telegraph scanning machines were not used for all post at Christmas because of the “incredible volume” of letters being sent.
They said some decisions about whether a stamp was counterfeit were therefore only taken by a member of revenue protection staff and because the counterfeits are so realistic, they had made mistakes.
They said: “As we’ve been very clear about, you can’t tell [it’s a counterfeit stamp] in most cases just by looking at it so if it’s been sorted manually, it hasn’t been spotted and frankly that’s on us, us losing revenue that’s a fact.”
The whistleblower added staff were “embarrassed” to surcharge customers they believe incorrectly, adding: “The whole thing is horrible, it’s not pleasant.”
On Thursday, MPs reacted with fury to The Telegraph’s latest findings with former Conservative leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith calling for a public inquiry.
Sir Iain said: “I think it’s time for the business committee to call for them to have an inquiry. It’s quite clear at the moment no one knows whether they have fake stamps or normal stamps.
“They’ve not explained to the public what they are doing to check them and that’s where the issue arises. They need to be much more open about it. It’s time to come clean.”
Royal Mail has so far not accepted there is any issue with how they process and decide a stamp is counterfeit and has instead blamed Border Force and independent retailers for selling Chinese counterfeits.
A Royal Mail spokesperson said: “These highly trained colleagues work in our mail processing centres across the country and it is their job to check stamps identified as potentially counterfeit. They have helped contribute to the 90pc reduction of illegal counterfeit stamps we have seen in our network since the introduction of barcoded stamps. They understand the complexities involved with constantly evolving forgeries and are tested regularly on their ability to identify counterfeit stamps.
“Our colleagues working in our local Customer Service Points are not required to make judgements on the validity of stamps. They have guidance on how to support our customers with any surcharges that are applied and always have the ability to contact the surcharging team to confirm or query any decision. Customers who receive a surcharge are encouraged to contact our Customer Experience team if they have any questions.”
Royal Mail staff are using Google to identify counterfeit stamps amid growing concerns letter recipients are being wrongly fined, whistleblowers have told The Telegraph.
Insiders have painted a bleak picture of chaos and confusion at delivery offices nationwide, with employees “embarrassed” and returning fines to sorting offices because they fear genuine stamps are being wrongly marked as counterfeit.
Despite Royal Mail previously insisting its processes were secure, whistleblowers have told The Telegraph:
Resources put towards identifying counterfeits have been “cut to the bone”, as Royal Mail prioritises parcels.
Delivery offices are being overwhelmed with fake stamp fines – one said it receives almost 500 in a week. Royal Mail has around 1,400 delivery offices nationwide.
Stamps flagged as counterfeit by the postal service’s revenue protection experts are being routinely questioned by staff and sent back for re-evaluation.
Frontline staff have received no training and are relying on the internet for guidance.
Others are ignoring decisions from Royal Mail’s revenue protection unit and wiping fines.
The claims pile more pressure on Royal Mail to give into demands for a full-scale investigation into the scourge of counterfeit stamps which it has so far resisted.
It comes as senior MPs have ordered Royal Mail to “stop penalising innocent people” and sort out its “mess” with both Labour and the Liberal Democrats calling for penalties to be halted pending a full investigation.
Royal Mail
One whistleblower claims Royal Mail prioritises parcels and special delivery post, with letters often 'sat at a delivery office or stuck somewhere'
One insider, who recently retired after 18 years at Royal Mail, said they had dealt with a “staggering” number of complaints from those who said they had bought their stamps at the Post Office.
They claim revenue protection – the department responsible for inspecting letters and distributing fines – are making “a lot of mistakes”.
Staff told The Telegraph they would routinely return letters with so-called counterfeit stamps to regional mail centres for review. In a number of cases, the fines were overturned.
“Within days, and I mean less than a week of barcoded stamps being out in public, we were getting surcharges saying the stamps were counterfeit. I remember thinking, this has just been issued, how can we be dealing with [this many] counterfeit stamps so quickly?”
Another member of frontline staff said they were “constantly” dealing with customer complaints. They said training on how to identify a counterfeit stamp or what to tell irate customers was “non-existent” and they had resorted to Googling how to spot a counterfeit stamp.
They said: “I can remember having to stand there with a colleague and we were Googling how to recognise a counterfeit stamp because we’d literally had no information dispersed from above.”
After raising the issue with their manager last August, they were told: “Well done for doing that and using your initiative.”
They claimed management was not interested in the rise of people being forced to pay fines to collect letters and if you mentioned it you were “usually met with a waved hand”.
How shiny is your stamp?
The first thing to do is to hold your stamp up to a light and see how the light reflects off the stamp. If the stamp appears to be very shiny, it can be a sign the stamp has been printed on different paper which would indicate a counterfeit.
Don’t rely on the feel of the barcode
Some stamp experts have claimed one method to check whether a stamp is genuine is to feel for a raised barcode. However Royal Mail pointed out the feel of a barcode, and whether it is raised or flat, is to do with the printing process.
Are the security ovals missing or do they look off-centre?
On a first class stamp, the roman numeral I in the bottom left corner should fit completely inside the oval. The outline of the oval should be cut perfectly between the “S” and the “T”.
Do the perforations look spiky?
A counterfeit stamp will have sharper or spikier perforations whereas a genuine stamp should appear to be more square like. However, spotting the difference can be incredibly difficult.
What colour is the logo?
If you have bought individual stamps, this step won’t apply to you. However, when purchasing a book of stamps or even a sheet of stamps, find the Forest Stewardship Council certification. On a genuine book of stamps, these will be turquoise.
Where did you buy your stamps?
Royal Mail says stamps should be bought from Post Offices, or if purchased online, from its own website
One whistleblower said they dealt with surcharges “on a case by case basis” and said colleagues would often not charge customers and let them have the post without paying the “silly” £5 fine.
They added they had sympathy for revenue protection staff who they claim are “misidentifying” stamps because Royal Mail has cut resources “to the bone”, and are prioritising parcels and special delivery post.
“Tracked items take priority because that’s the thing customers can see, they are the things they can go online and see if it’s sat at a delivery office or stuck somewhere. They know stamps are on the way out, they know letters are on the way out, they don’t care.”
The insider said letters spent “days and days” in delivery offices over Christmas because it was not a “priority”. “They had a paper trail, everything with stamps stayed there until they had to go and clear it.”
They added last Christmas they dealt with more than 60 letters a day which were accused of being counterfeit – almost 500 per week.
Another insider revealed stamps gifted to employees by Royal Mail at Christmas had been flagged as counterfeit.
They said their colleague had received a set of four barcoded Christmas stamps – one of which was deemed counterfeit and led to a family member having to pay a £5 surcharge.
The whistleblower said: “It is very strange. Unless Royal Mail are sending us counterfeit stamps, which of course they wouldn’t, there is definitely an issue.”
Last week, a senior executive at Royal Mail told The Telegraph scanning machines were not used for all post at Christmas because of the “incredible volume” of letters being sent.
They said some decisions about whether a stamp was counterfeit were therefore only taken by a member of revenue protection staff and because the counterfeits are so realistic, they had made mistakes.
They said: “As we’ve been very clear about, you can’t tell [it’s a counterfeit stamp] in most cases just by looking at it so if it’s been sorted manually, it hasn’t been spotted and frankly that’s on us, us losing revenue that’s a fact.”
The whistleblower added staff were “embarrassed” to surcharge customers they believe incorrectly, adding: “The whole thing is horrible, it’s not pleasant.”
On Thursday, MPs reacted with fury to The Telegraph’s latest findings with former Conservative leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith calling for a public inquiry.
Sir Iain said: “I think it’s time for the business committee to call for them to have an inquiry. It’s quite clear at the moment no one knows whether they have fake stamps or normal stamps.
“They’ve not explained to the public what they are doing to check them and that’s where the issue arises. They need to be much more open about it. It’s time to come clean.”
Royal Mail has so far not accepted there is any issue with how they process and decide a stamp is counterfeit and has instead blamed Border Force and independent retailers for selling Chinese counterfeits.
A Royal Mail spokesperson said: “These highly trained colleagues work in our mail processing centres across the country and it is their job to check stamps identified as potentially counterfeit. They have helped contribute to the 90pc reduction of illegal counterfeit stamps we have seen in our network since the introduction of barcoded stamps. They understand the complexities involved with constantly evolving forgeries and are tested regularly on their ability to identify counterfeit stamps.
“Our colleagues working in our local Customer Service Points are not required to make judgements on the validity of stamps. They have guidance on how to support our customers with any surcharges that are applied and always have the ability to contact the surcharging team to confirm or query any decision. Customers who receive a surcharge are encouraged to contact our Customer Experience team if they have any questions.”
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
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sorefeet17
- Posts: 295
- Joined: 11 May 2015, 17:10
- Gender: Male
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SpacePhoenix
- MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
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Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
All that will happen is that people will stop putting a return address on what they send
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theotherone
- Posts: 430
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Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
Correct. Because that's what I do now. Got surcharged for being 3g overweight so because my return address was on there no grey card for recipient.SpacePhoenix wrote: ↑26 Apr 2024, 19:41All that will happen is that people will stop putting a return address on what they send
So I had to pay 3 times. Once to send it out, twice for the surcharge to get the return back then third to send it back out!
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LouBarlow
- Posts: 4709
- Joined: 15 Oct 2007, 18:56
Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
Misidentifying counterfeit stamps seems like a way to increase revenue. It is odd how this has suddenly become such a big issue, with people sending less and less stamped mail.
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postslippete
- Posts: 4188
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Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
Last week, a senior executive at Royal Mail told The Telegraph scanning machines were not used for all post at Christmas because of the “incredible volume” of letters being sent.
Thought that letter traffic had declined?
Obviously, now stamp prices have gone up that much there will be more people looking to counterfeit them.
Thought that letter traffic had declined?
Obviously, now stamp prices have gone up that much there will be more people looking to counterfeit them.
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
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sorefeet17
- Posts: 295
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Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
It does seem like an overkill reaction to some bad publicity, I would say that most letters with a fake stamp wouldn't have a return address most of the time, and the ones that get sent back, the people will still go to the Daily Mail saying they bought them legitimately. Meanwhile the fakers will ramp-up production knowing that the stamps will get through no matter.
They would do better trying to sort out why legit stamps are being charged (if that is the case anyway?)
They would do better trying to sort out why legit stamps are being charged (if that is the case anyway?)
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LouBarlow
- Posts: 4709
- Joined: 15 Oct 2007, 18:56
Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
People in sending lots of letters at Christmas shocker!postslippete wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 07:37Last week, a senior executive at Royal Mail told The Telegraph scanning machines were not used for all post at Christmas because of the “incredible volume” of letters being sent.
Thought that letter traffic had declined?
Obviously, now stamp prices have gone up that much there will be more people looking to counterfeit them.
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Philbag70
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Kenfandango
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Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
Invent a problem that doesn't exist
Blame the public/ everyone else for the problem
Charge to fix the problem you invented
Profit!
Blame the public/ everyone else for the problem
Charge to fix the problem you invented
Profit!
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TopperGas
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Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
I assumed the barcoded stamps made it easier to detect counterfeit stamps?
Surprised we're now letting them though the system for free, why not just charge them the usual 1c/2c price?
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R5001
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Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
I'm going to guess that the "code" has been cracked for the barcodes and thus it's first past the gate that beats automation. so counterfeiter makes 100,000 stamps and 80,000 of them get through the system before the real stamp does, and boom, the real stamp is deemed a copy as it's second.
Might not be right, but its one possible avenue to an explanation, I'd expect it to be something along this line, too much automation that has been defeated.
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Mr Rush
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Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
That was my assumption. The barcodes are not anti-counterfeit measures like a hologram on a banknote that a counterfeiter cannot replicate, they're just serial numbers in a non-human readable format. We've had problems for the last decade with two Tracked items having identical barcodes and nothing was done about that.R5001 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 17:36I'm going to guess that the "code" has been cracked for the barcodes and thus it's first past the gate that beats automation. so counterfeiter makes 100,000 stamps and 80,000 of them get through the system before the real stamp does, and boom, the real stamp is deemed a copy as it's second.
The machine stops.
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LouBarlow
- Posts: 4709
- Joined: 15 Oct 2007, 18:56
Re: RMCtv : Changes to how items bearing Counterfeit Stamps are Handled by Revenue Protection
The fuss they make over loss of income for this. I see far more letters being redirected for free than I have ever seen counterfeit stamps. When I query this, I am told that mail with the address crossed out and a new address scrawled on it unofficially by a third party, still has to be delivered to the new forwarding address.
Why? That is costing the company as much mail if people aren’t paying for redirection services.
Why? That is costing the company as much mail if people aren’t paying for redirection services.