Royal Mail Pensions To Change In 7 Days

[BELIAL]

Whats "squinnying" ? Peruse all you like and feel free to reproduce the relevant posts . You don't seem to like the facts that don't suit your purpose.

Seemed like a simple enough question to me,don't think I can make it any more simple.

Why should I accept a pay cut to further increase RM's profits?

Discuss.

[Budfrog]

I can feel a name change coming on... How about 'Northern Rock Postal Service' ??

[BELIAL]

Yes, yes, yes, paraphrasing others points re funding and shortfalls is all well and good, but I'll ask again; how does striking improve/nullify/counter-act/whatever the pension shortfall?

Don't think you've ever agreed with me three times in one line before

You can ask that question as many times as you like it will still make no sense whatsoever. Firstly it seems based on an underlying assumption that IA is something other than a last resort,can't speak for others unlike some but in my case not true.
Secondly,who has ever suggested that taking strike action will reduce the ever changing deficit (apart from you by implication in the phrasing of your question)
Try this one
How has not striking resulted in such a large pension deficit?

[Night Tonic]

Er....whats that mean. Might as well say, How has not balancing an orange on my nose resulted in such a large pension deficit?

[k979aaa]

WE ALL SHOULD STAND TOGETHER AS ONE UNITED IN OUR STRUGGLE FOR JUSTICE FOR OUR CLAIM TO OUR RIGHT OUR PENSION IS OURS NOT ROYALMAIL'S FOR THOSE WHO WISH NOT TO FIGHT ROLL OVER AND DIE FOR YOUR LACK OF EFFORT WILL NOT BE MISSED BY US ALL TOGETHER AS ONE AND ALL!.

[BELIAL]

Cheers my fine chum, just love it when you reinforce my point.

Unrelated and purely idle curiosity but do you have difficulty concentrating? Ever been diagnosed with ADHD?,no slur intended ,But with the appropriate treatment this very real handicap is more than manageable.Farewell

[BB brother]

So how do we move foward with this Night Tonic ?

[pinstripe]

Right a few points I'd like to make.
1. What happened to all the contributions made over the 17 year pension holiday. Were these contributions paid back to the pension holders or were they kept by the govt./RM
2. What would be the point of striking?

I don't know the answer to point 1, as I'm not in the pension scheme. Point 2, however:
Striking will not recover the lost payments, it will not make RM reconsider the changes that they have been trying to bring in for years. It will show that we as the last bastion of decent working class union workers will not lie down and roll over just because we may lose our jobs and future. RM is going to hell in a hurry, the government and senior managers are stoking the fires, the media is on their side, the public are hoodwinked and we are fighting among ourselves. Accept it people, the job is ruined. As such and even though it is not my fight (not in the pension scheme and hoped to work to 65) I'm going down fighting just to make such a stink about it, that they might, just might, think twice before they try the same elsewhere. I for one only fight for what I truly believe in and if by striking it causes the collapse of RM, well I can live with that.
We all know that RM will not fold, this is a scaremongering tactic, add it to the bullying ones that RM use. For gods sake, grow a set and act like a man. Stand up against what you see is wrong. If you can honestly say it is the fault of the workers for wanting what they were promised and what they HAVE PAID FOR, if you believe in your heart that RM are faultless and if you believe that there are no alternatives to RM's get-out-quick and screw you, we'll be alright, policy then go ahead, but at least let us fight our fight.

[k979aaa]

Right a few points I'd like to make.
1. What happened to all the contributions made over the 17 year pension holiday. Were these contributions paid back to the pension holders or were they kept by the govt./RM
2. What would be the point of striking?

I don't know the answer to point 1, as I'm not in the pension scheme. Point 2, however:
Striking will not recover the lost payments, it will not make RM reconsider the changes that they have been trying to bring in for years. It will show that we as the last bastion of decent working class union workers will not lie down and roll over just because we may lose our jobs and future. RM is going to hell in a hurry, the government and senior managers are stoking the fires, the media is on their side, the public are hoodwinked and we are fighting among ourselves. Accept it people, the job is ruined. As such and even though it is not my fight (not in the pension scheme and hoped to work to 65) I'm going down fighting just to make such a stink about it, that they might, just might, think twice before they try the same elsewhere. I for one only fight for what I truly believe in and if by striking it causes the collapse of RM, well I can live with that.
We all know that RM will not fold, this is a scaremongering tactic, add it to the bullying ones that RM use. For gods sake, grow a set and act like a man. Stand up against what you see is wrong. If you can honestly say it is the fault of the workers for wanting what they were promised and what they HAVE PAID FOR, if you believe in your heart that RM are faultless and if you believe that there are no alternatives to RM's get-out-quick and screw you, we'll be alright, policy then go ahead, but at least let us fight our fight.

Well said seconded by me and if their was any lack of fight for our struggle together as one and all. HERE IS A POST TO DISPEL ANY DOUBT FOR OUR CAUSE IS JUST AND RIGHT!.

[andy2007]

There was a LARGE amount of contributions which RM FAILED to pay. That is where the idea of Pensions being stolen came from.

Personally, I'm not in the Pension scheme. But I know a lot of people who are. And they have been paying into it for many years, under the impression that they would be looked after in their retirement. Now that is being taken away from them, because of the greed of a few people at the "top".

Decisions taken so long ago, but taken by the Trustees for the right reasons. Had the trustees said nothing, and the fund reached the tax thresh-hold above which taxation was due, worker's contributions would have effectively been paid straight to the Treasury. Wouldn't that have been wrong also?
Hardly "greed" when the decisions were taken to minimise tax losses by the pension fund. Those same people at the "top" didn't benefit in any shape or form from that pensions holiday.

If they were to replace the missing contributions (taking inflation into account), then the situation wouldn't be anywhere near as bad. Obviously, there would still be a need for change, but it wouldn't hit people as hard, as the deficit would be much smaller!
Where would this money come from?
Extra contributions (say 50%) of ANYONE'S bonus, until all the money is replaced. Admittedly, it would cost us all money. But with 6 figure bonuses being given to some, it wouldn't take many years for it to get sorted out.

Think you're underestimating the sheer scale of this deficit, as do the pro-strike element. There is NO magic cupboard full of cash which the Pension fund trustees or RM management can access to fill the void, whatever the depth of feeling shown here, or whatever results strike ballots throw up.

Firstly: I apologise for not knowing about the Tax implications from the missing contributions. However, I stand by my suggestion that we could make a significant dent in the deficit, by contributing half of any bonuses (wether in the Pension Scheme or not).

I also was rather sarcastic about the timescale, because of the rediculous bonuses paid to those who seek to reduce the quality of the SERVICE, that's right, Service, not Business! But the fact is, that even paying half of our bonuses, would reduce the deficit, and therefore reduce the adverse effect on the Pension that our Collegues will NEED when they Retire. After all, we aren't all going to Retire in the next few years. So there will be plenty of time for these extra contributions to accumilate.

Remember, that Bonuses are IN ADDITION to our Wages, and not guaranteed. Therefore, halving the ammount that we actually take home from them, wouldn't be a major sacrifice. So long as we have proof that it is actually going direct into the Pension Scheme, and not into Leighton and Crozier's pockets.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't trust either of them with Bus Fare, let alone a Pension Scheme.


Secondly: I am NOT suggesting that we Strike. As some of my Collegues have already stated. It's a LAST resort, NOT an opening move!

I would be very surprised (and dismayed), if we ended up on Strike in the near future. There are other avenues to exhaust first. However, IF a Strike is called. I will be there on the Picket Line with my Collegues, just as I have done with every other Strike wether Official or Unofficial, ever since I joined the CWU!

[Tman]

Whats "squinnying" ? Peruse all you like and feel free to reproduce the relevant posts . You don't seem to like the facts that don't suit your purpose.

Pot, kettle, black? You ought to be a politician with that degree of obfuscation.

Seemed like a simple enough question to me,don't think I can make it any more simple.

Why should I accept a pay cut to further increase RM's profits?

Is the question rhetorical, or does it allude to another point you've yet to make? If it's the first, then the answer is "no, why should you?", but if it's the second, then please continue and elucidate.

Secondly, as regards your other posting concerning IA, if IA is not the ultimate sanction (and the desire of some, it seems) then what is?

[bogstandard]

where will the company be in 17 years time after it has made the payments it has promised to make?
will the fund be fit for current purpose (i.e. final salary/retire at 60/people living longer) or will it be in deficit still?
will the fund be over subscribed and RM on another holiday?
if IA is called for and results in the liquidation of RM would the union go out of business too

on a lighter note given the negotiating skills recently displayed at hq, if i were to take action and destroy RM and the CWU in 1 move i think i may just die a happy man.

[Glenno]

where will the company be in 17 years time after it has made the payments it has promised to make?
will the fund be fit for current purpose (i.e. final salary/retire at 60/people living longer) or will it be in deficit still?
will the fund be over subscribed and RM on another holiday?

if IA is called for and results in the liquidation of RM would the union go out of business too

on a lighter note given the negotiating skills recently displayed at hq, if i were to take action and destroy RM and the CWU in 1 move i think i may just die a happy man.

NO I DONT THINK SO AS THEY ARE PRO ACTIVELY RECRUITING ALL IN THE COMMS INDUSTRY