cutting up jobs and health and safety

[drevil1969uk]

Im hoping someone can help me, are the health and safety laws official law as in could go to court?

For example the rule of one yorkie at a time. If someone moves two and the manager doesnt stop them or he does and they carry on doing it and the manager carries on telling them and then i get hit who is in the wrong? The manager or the person doing two at a time?

Also what is the situation of managers doing postmans jobs, is it allowed? as in we had some jobs not covered last week and were short of people for our main dispatch so our manager was doing the work, that cant be right,can it?

[oldrope]

i would think RM & the manager would be up the creak if you got hit by someone pulling/pushing 2 yorks. If the dispatch is going to fail then a manager can help out.

[Lounge Lizard]

Both the manager and the other person are to blame but only if a risk assessment has taken place defining the safe system of work as moving only one york at a time. A manager can do a postman's work if he has had adequate training for it, which is prtobably the case if he was doing it in the past. In practice most health and safety procedures only get properly looked at after an accident has occured.

[alangate]

Im hoping someone can help me, are the health and safety laws official law as in could go to court?

For example the rule of one yorkie at a time. If someone moves two and the manager doesnt stop them or he does and they carry on doing it and the manager carries on telling them and then i get hit who is in the wrong? The manager or the person doing two at a time?

Also what is the situation of managers doing postmans jobs, is it allowed? as in we had some jobs not covered last week and were short of people for our main dispatch so our manager was doing the work, that cant be right,can it?

Hi you can always give your area H&S rep a call or if you do not get any satisfaction you can contact the national officer.

As for your manager tell him he can ignore you but not H&S if an accident happens and you have,the documentation he will end up in a lot of trouble. i.e corporate manslaughter is a big thing in industry at the moment.

Good luck & dont forget to keep a record of everything that they are doing against H&S laws .

[drevil1969uk]

i would think RM & the manager would be up the creak if you got hit by someone pulling/pushing 2 yorks. If the dispatch is going to fail then a manager can help out.

This is not to start an argument just a debate, but if that is the case that the dispatch is going to fail why dont they just do it all over the building, lapse duties left right and centre and have managers doing it?

[edinburghsteve]

I'm afraid its the reponsibility of the person moving the two yorkies and the managers. The only one to blame will be the individual. The manager won't take any blame.

[brothermagrew]

I'm afraid its the reponsibility of the person moving the two yorkies and the managers. The only one to blame will be the individual. The manager won't take any blame.

Don't agree mate

a. Individual person moving both yorkies would be at fault for not carrying out the proper safe system of work namely the moving of only one yorkie at a time.

b. Manager would also be liable as he or she has not properly ensured that under their care namely that of all members of their staff (for who they are legally responsible for) the proper safe systems of work were being used and enforced.

c. Royal Mail the employer would also most likely be vicariously liable for any injury received by their employees.

[drevil1969uk]

am i within my rights to keep telling a manager not to do it?

[zaphod]

am i within my rights to keep telling a manager not to do it?

Yes. Keep a written record of when and who. Inform your H&S Rep to action, and the Area Rep. They have to back you. Also inform the CMA Rep., too, and the site manager.

The rules for York correct handling are:
One open york - One person - pushing from behind, and holding the yellow handles.
Three in a craddle - One person pushing from behind.
Five (and no more)in a craddle - Two people - one steering from the front, one behind.
Five (and no more) open - linked by straps One person - provided that the Yorks are moved from one area to another of the office in a straight-line route.

Crack down on H&S issues. The company has little regard for them, in general, by my experiences.

If there's an accident, when the above are not adhered to, the operative themselves is at fault, not the business, and will be liable for any consequential accidents, and expenses therein. The WAM will also be at fault for allowing incorrect procedures with RM equipment to be carried out in their Work Area.

HTH

[drevil1969uk]

ah see i move 5 yorkies at a time on a regular basis nestled but its very rarely in a straight line am i entitiled to refuse if im having to keep going left then right then left again around obstacles, for example? (i wont mention that the obstacles are created by managers storing work!!!)

[zaphod]

ah see i move 5 yorkies at a time on a regular basis nestled but its very rarely in a straight line am i entitiled to refuse if im having to keep going left then right then left again around obstacles, for example? (i wont mention that the obstacles are created by managers storing work!!!)

Yes, if they are not cradled.

[drevil1969uk]

is that yes i would be entitled to refuse to move them or yes i am entitled to move them?

[bogstandard]

no you are not entitled to refuse to move them but you are entitled to change how youmove them.
if you are working on your own its no more than 3
what you need is a copy of the safe systems of work, (can anyone help) this would explain your actions and it is then up to your manager to prove this document is false. have someone you trust as a witness to your conversation, if you manager catches you on the hop without a witness get one and go back and have the conversation again,in my experiance it has been so funny watching a once eloquent individual become elmer fudd and backtrack faster than hillary clinton who was apparently "mis-spoken" whatever that means
having had the opportunity to think about it i think it means "lied and got caught"

[drevil1969uk]

excellent bogstandard just wanted to be sure before i started moving anymore etc, now to find that safe systems of work..........

[zaphod]

no you are not entitled to refuse to move them but you are entitled to change how youmove them.
if you are working on your own its no more than 3
what you need is a copy of the safe systems of work, (can anyone help) this would explain your actions and it is then up to your manager to prove this document is false. have someone you trust as a witness to your conversation, if you manager catches you on the hop without a witness get one and go back and have the conversation again,in my experiance it has been so funny watching a once eloquent individual become elmer fudd and backtrack faster than hillary clinton who was apparently "mis-spoken" whatever that means
having had the opportunity to think about it i think it means "lied and got caught"

Safe Systems of work is on the intranet at t'office, hard copies should be freely available to all staff, IMHO. They are at our mail centre. Find a friendly colleague.
I would leave the leg work to the manager to find the document, and educate themselves, before entering into any discussion. I have done this before, with the proviso that when they come and see me next to be ready to apologise profusely - although, of course, this never happens.