Delivery staff leaving royal mail.

[Nickvilla20]

"It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes."

Is this really the case or a bit of fiction? During the Christmas period we had postie's leaving the DO at 7am on our DPR's and I'm certain it hadn't taken them 2 hours to sort their parcels, prior to joining RM I worked briefly at a Amazon solation depot and it seemed just as labour intensive as a RM DO, my sole job for my shift was to manually sort parcels into post code areas, not unlike sorting parcels into duty areas in the DO.

If all the mail is sorted when I get in I could throw off and tie up within an hour on a lighter day. The Amazon driver on my delivery doesn’t even complete even though he’s working 14 hour days.

[scotchy1962]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary.

The company as a whole made over a billion pounds profit during the pandemic. It's a privatised industry that uses creative accounting to conveniently make 'losses' because it desperately wants rid of the USO which will allow it to make even greater profits in the future. These parcel hubs that RM have spent billions on could mean staff having to work into the night delivering parcels. Now from your perspective that might be great for people who want to work 80 hours a week in the short term; but it is not positive for most people who want a life and have a family to look after.

The CWU knew that this day was coming and aspired for a shorter working week to compensate for larger outdoor spans. Instead we got a pay rise but ended up working more hours due to seasonal variations.

I don’t doubt that creative accounting has been deployed — all businesses do it. But the fact remains; the old dinosaur does need to keep up. The product that RM continues to churn out, a clunky 12-inch B&W Television, is no longer wanted by customers, and they aren’t buying them. The customers want a 4K 75-inch TV. Sorry for the rubbish analogy!

But the processes at RM are unnecessarily clunky, massively inefficient and labour intensive. Some examples:

It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes.

Geofencing used by other carriers mean it is, in theory at least, impossible to mis-deliver an item to the wrong address, as the system won’t allow the delivery to be completed without supervisor intervention, thereby protecting the driver from lying customers denying receipt. It also directs the driver to the exact pinpoint location of the entrance door to the delivery point — invaluable if it’s a large luxury flats development with 12 separate entrances and/or you’re not familiar with the round.

You cite the parcel hubs as a sign of doom and gloom. Evening deliveries are demanded by a big sector of consumers, and in turn retailers are wanting to offer evening delivery as standard. New niche carriers like Hived are creaming this premium sector of the market and are taking the regular work with it - retailers are likely to go with carriers who can provide a one-stop shop for their needs.

But who said that people are going to be working 80 hours a week delivering parcels? I didn’t. If RM want, or need, to deliver into the night, they will need to recruit for a new twilight shift, no? People may of course volunteer for overtime, but it’s a massive assumption to jump to in suggesting people will have to work 80 hours a week. Indeed, no one can be forced to work more than an average of 48 hours on a given week - see the Working Time Directive for further info.

Hmmm yet again a RM postie who seems to know a lot about the process of us and other companies and is quoting it as the complete truth, i have no reason to doubt what you say about these processes as i have no knowledge of how other companies work. As a mere postie/delivery person i am not really sure what reason you would have to dig down into the process and start quoting how to make savings and improve delivery method, unless you aren't what you say you are, again i am not accusing you of not being a postie just wondering why you are so interested, RM has a process whereby you can put forward any money saving ideas, maybe that's the place for all this.
All these criticisms of RM method lead me to wonder why work at this old dinosaur? Unless working here is better than elsewhere, just a thought.

[Smoothbackground]

"It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes."

Is this really the case or a bit of fiction? During the Christmas period we had postie's leaving the DO at 7am on our DPR's and I'm certain it hadn't taken them 2 hours to sort their parcels, prior to joining RM I worked briefly at a Amazon solation depot and it seemed just as labour intensive as a RM DO, my sole job for my shift was to manually sort parcels into post code areas, not unlike sorting parcels into duty areas in the DO.

So you’re calling me a liar?

No, you had other posties like me coming in early over the Xmas period on OT to scan, sort and number the DPR parcels so the drivers could get out early, usually by 9.00 am. What you’re on about — a very small number of posties taking out some tracked items for paired walks at 7.00 am — is NOT a DPR. Those posties are instead doing a very small fixed round where it isn’t necessary to sort and number the packages. We have them in our office too. How can DPR drivers be getting out at 7.00 am when the IPS is still barely underway and shuttles are still bringing the work in!

As I have said, and I reiterate, the process of staging a DPR is mega inefficient and takes up to two hours for a large route. It requires scanning each parcel twice - once in RON to manifest, then once in Outdoor to identify the drop number so the parcel can be numbered. That means moving and handling the parcel twice just in this bit of the process.

And what is an “Amazon solation depot”. Do you mean an Amazon delivery station? Or an Amazon fulfilment centre? Not sure how long ago you claim to have been an Amazon associate but I can assure you that isn’t how it’s ever been done during my lengthy time there (though it may have been done that way in the early stages of Amazon Logistics (2016/2017). Given your Amazon expertise, perhaps you can enlighten us all about the staging process then? You are talking rubbish! The routing, sortation and consequent driver aid stickers (numbering of parcels) is fully automated and is done upstream (i.e. not at the delivery station) by Amazon’s algorithm. The only exception to this is at Fresh Logistics stations (grocery delivery), where associates do play a role in zoning and staging bags onto trollies.

[Smoothbackground]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary.

The company as a whole made over a billion pounds profit during the pandemic. It's a privatised industry that uses creative accounting to conveniently make 'losses' because it desperately wants rid of the USO which will allow it to make even greater profits in the future. These parcel hubs that RM have spent billions on could mean staff having to work into the night delivering parcels. Now from your perspective that might be great for people who want to work 80 hours a week in the short term; but it is not positive for most people who want a life and have a family to look after.

The CWU knew that this day was coming and aspired for a shorter working week to compensate for larger outdoor spans. Instead we got a pay rise but ended up working more hours due to seasonal variations.

I don’t doubt that creative accounting has been deployed — all businesses do it. But the fact remains; the old dinosaur does need to keep up. The product that RM continues to churn out, a clunky 12-inch B&W Television, is no longer wanted by customers, and they aren’t buying them. The customers want a 4K 75-inch TV. Sorry for the rubbish analogy!

But the processes at RM are unnecessarily clunky, massively inefficient and labour intensive. Some examples:

It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes.

Geofencing used by other carriers mean it is, in theory at least, impossible to mis-deliver an item to the wrong address, as the system won’t allow the delivery to be completed without supervisor intervention, thereby protecting the driver from lying customers denying receipt. It also directs the driver to the exact pinpoint location of the entrance door to the delivery point — invaluable if it’s a large luxury flats development with 12 separate entrances and/or you’re not familiar with the round.

You cite the parcel hubs as a sign of doom and gloom. Evening deliveries are demanded by a big sector of consumers, and in turn retailers are wanting to offer evening delivery as standard. New niche carriers like Hived are creaming this premium sector of the market and are taking the regular work with it - retailers are likely to go with carriers who can provide a one-stop shop for their needs.

But who said that people are going to be working 80 hours a week delivering parcels? I didn’t. If RM want, or need, to deliver into the night, they will need to recruit for a new twilight shift, no? People may of course volunteer for overtime, but it’s a massive assumption to jump to in suggesting people will have to work 80 hours a week. Indeed, no one can be forced to work more than an average of 48 hours on a given week - see the Working Time Directive for further info.

Hmmm yet again a RM postie who seems to know a lot about the process of us and other companies and is quoting it as the complete truth, i have no reason to doubt what you say about these processes as i have no knowledge of how other companies work. As a mere postie/delivery person i am not really sure what reason you would have to dig down into the process and start quoting how to make savings and improve delivery method, unless you aren't what you say you are, again i am not accusing you of not being a postie just wondering why you are so interested, RM has a process whereby you can put forward any money saving ideas, maybe that's the place for all this.
All these criticisms of RM method lead me to wonder why work at this old dinosaur? Unless working here is better than elsewhere, just a thought.

Hmm, how strange! And what is wrong with trying to understand the whole logistics process? Why is that suspicious or strange to you? Do you have no idea at all as to how the letters on your frame for delivery got there in the first place?! Of course not.

Yes, working here is better than elsewhere. It is the cushiest little number I have encountered! I have not for a moment suggested otherwise. Less work for more money is a key benefit. It is only the old guard who keep moaning how awful RM is but yet refuse to leave as deep down they know how cushty their number is.

[LouBarlow]

*cough* not all of us old timers are moaning about the job You are right though, it is comparatively easy compared to other employment in the sector. I will say though, it will be interesting to see if I still feel the same when the start times change. If they do.

[postslippete]

*cough* not all of us old timers are moaning about the job You are right though, it is comparatively easy compared to other employment in the sector. I will say though, it will be interesting to see if I still feel the same when the start times change. If they do.

Yeah, that's the change I'm not looking forward to. I'm not against RM modernising and having parcel hubs, but if we are all starting later due to having less indoor work then what's the benefit for us other than bigger outdoor spans and finishing later??

It's a shame that RM are neglecting their only unique selling point in delivering letters, especially as nearly half of our revenue comes from it. Our deliveries are nearly twice as big and postage on letters twice the price as what they were years ago. In the three years to 2022, Royal Mail actually recorded £1.7 billion in profits. So there is less mail being delivered overall, postage prices are going up through the roof and yet the post is being delivered much later in the day, or days late. Consumers are paying a higher price and getting a far worse service.

OfCom said that if Royal Mail got rid of Saturday letter deliveries they would save £225 million a year. It would be interesting to see if this money will go to actually improving the service of a 5 day USO rather than shareholder dividends and senior management bonuses.

[postslippete]

I don’t doubt that creative accounting has been deployed — all businesses do it. But the fact remains; the old dinosaur does need to keep up. The product that RM continues to churn out, a clunky 12-inch B&W Television, is no longer wanted by customers, and they aren’t buying them. The customers want a 4K 75-inch TV. Sorry for the rubbish analogy!

But the processes at RM are unnecessarily clunky, massively inefficient and labour intensive. Some examples:

It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes.

Geofencing used by other carriers mean it is, in theory at least, impossible to mis-deliver an item to the wrong address, as the system won’t allow the delivery to be completed without supervisor intervention, thereby protecting the driver from lying customers denying receipt. It also directs the driver to the exact pinpoint location of the entrance door to the delivery point — invaluable if it’s a large luxury flats development with 12 separate entrances and/or you’re not familiar with the round.

You cite the parcel hubs as a sign of doom and gloom. Evening deliveries are demanded by a big sector of consumers, and in turn retailers are wanting to offer evening delivery as standard. New niche carriers like Hived are creaming this premium sector of the market and are taking the regular work with it - retailers are likely to go with carriers who can provide a one-stop shop for their needs.

Phew! Thanks for the reply


I didn't know about Hive but from their website it looks like a start-up that is cherry picking parcel deliveries in a lucrative area (Greater London). I'm sure there is plenty of competition in these areas but from the reviews on indeed.co.uk this company sounds like Uber on speed! Working from 6pm onwards, staff turning up for work and being sent away, people not getting paid overtime due to traffic Hmmmm

[Smoothbackground]

Phew! Thanks for the reply


I didn't know about Hive but from their website it looks like a start-up that is cherry picking parcel deliveries in a lucrative area (Greater London). I'm sure there is plenty of competition in these areas but from the reviews on indeed.co.uk this company sounds like Uber on speed! Working from 6pm onwards, staff turning up for work and being sent away, people not getting paid overtime due to traffic Hmmmm

The market is saturated. Packfleet might be a more ethical, smaller scale example, whereby drivers are employed on proper contracts. not sure if it is definitely them, or another similar carrier, but I think Packfleet has been bought by DPD - who recognise the niche and want a slice of the pie.

[scotchy1962]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary.

The company as a whole made over a billion pounds profit during the pandemic. It's a privatised industry that uses creative accounting to conveniently make 'losses' because it desperately wants rid of the USO which will allow it to make even greater profits in the future. These parcel hubs that RM have spent billions on could mean staff having to work into the night delivering parcels. Now from your perspective that might be great for people who want to work 80 hours a week in the short term; but it is not positive for most people who want a life and have a family to look after.

The CWU knew that this day was coming and aspired for a shorter working week to compensate for larger outdoor spans. Instead we got a pay rise but ended up working more hours due to seasonal variations.

I don’t doubt that creative accounting has been deployed — all businesses do it. But the fact remains; the old dinosaur does need to keep up. The product that RM continues to churn out, a clunky 12-inch B&W Television, is no longer wanted by customers, and they aren’t buying them. The customers want a 4K 75-inch TV. Sorry for the rubbish analogy!

But the processes at RM are unnecessarily clunky, massively inefficient and labour intensive. Some examples:

It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes.

Geofencing used by other carriers mean it is, in theory at least, impossible to mis-deliver an item to the wrong address, as the system won’t allow the delivery to be completed without supervisor intervention, thereby protecting the driver from lying customers denying receipt. It also directs the driver to the exact pinpoint location of the entrance door to the delivery point — invaluable if it’s a large luxury flats development with 12 separate entrances and/or you’re not familiar with the round.

You cite the parcel hubs as a sign of doom and gloom. Evening deliveries are demanded by a big sector of consumers, and in turn retailers are wanting to offer evening delivery as standard. New niche carriers like Hived are creaming this premium sector of the market and are taking the regular work with it - retailers are likely to go with carriers who can provide a one-stop shop for their needs.

But who said that people are going to be working 80 hours a week delivering parcels? I didn’t. If RM want, or need, to deliver into the night, they will need to recruit for a new twilight shift, no? People may of course volunteer for overtime, but it’s a massive assumption to jump to in suggesting people will have to work 80 hours a week. Indeed, no one can be forced to work more than an average of 48 hours on a given week - see the Working Time Directive for further info.

Hmmm yet again a RM postie who seems to know a lot about the process of us and other companies and is quoting it as the complete truth, i have no reason to doubt what you say about these processes as i have no knowledge of how other companies work. As a mere postie/delivery person i am not really sure what reason you would have to dig down into the process and start quoting how to make savings and improve delivery method, unless you aren't what you say you are, again i am not accusing you of not being a postie just wondering why you are so interested, RM has a process whereby you can put forward any money saving ideas, maybe that's the place for all this.
All these criticisms of RM method lead me to wonder why work at this old dinosaur? Unless working here is better than elsewhere, just a thought.

Hmm, how strange! And what is wrong with trying to understand the whole logistics process? Why is that suspicious or strange to you? Do you have no idea at all as to how the letters on your frame for delivery got there in the first place?! Of course not.

Yes, working here is better than elsewhere. It is the cushiest little number I have encountered! I have not for a moment suggested otherwise. Less work for more money is a key benefit. It is only the old guard who keep moaning how awful RM is but yet refuse to leave as deep down they know how cushty their number is.

Yes let's try to belittle somebody who has no interest in what go's on above their pay grade, good on ye.
Spouting on about how cushy it is for you personally doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else, blaming the "old guard" for all problems within RM as though it's the real reason for problems within this company, all reasons why people will push back on you and question your standing in RM.
But sure you're not a troll and in no way are you attempting to get peoples backs up.
Have fun!!

[kazardaimenu]

USO aside our system seems a bit inefficient. You’ve got your man on a DPR with a couple of large parcels for one house and the postie going there too with a smaller but still boxy parcel that needs knocking for etc. Then DPR man heads back to the depot and takes out a few LATs maybe as little as 6 for all over the county. Doesn’t seem cost effective even if people want their biscuits they ordered at midnight next day… mind you I saw a couple of DPD vans rolling down the same street last week on delivery so can’t just be us.

[SpacePhoenix]

mind you I saw a couple of DPD vans rolling down the same street last week on delivery so can’t just be us.

Possibly on was the normal DPD van and the other doing time sensitive/critical ones. DPD have got kinda sub-company called DPD Local, which I believe is for deliveries where both the sender and the recipient come under the same DPD depot

[LouBarlow]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary.

The company as a whole made over a billion pounds profit during the pandemic. It's a privatised industry that uses creative accounting to conveniently make 'losses' because it desperately wants rid of the USO which will allow it to make even greater profits in the future. These parcel hubs that RM have spent billions on could mean staff having to work into the night delivering parcels. Now from your perspective that might be great for people who want to work 80 hours a week in the short term; but it is not positive for most people who want a life and have a family to look after.

The CWU knew that this day was coming and aspired for a shorter working week to compensate for larger outdoor spans. Instead we got a pay rise but ended up working more hours due to seasonal variations.

I don’t doubt that creative accounting has been deployed — all businesses do it. But the fact remains; the old dinosaur does need to keep up. The product that RM continues to churn out, a clunky 12-inch B&W Television, is no longer wanted by customers, and they aren’t buying them. The customers want a 4K 75-inch TV. Sorry for the rubbish analogy!

But the processes at RM are unnecessarily clunky, massively inefficient and labour intensive. Some examples:

It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes.

Geofencing used by other carriers mean it is, in theory at least, impossible to mis-deliver an item to the wrong address, as the system won’t allow the delivery to be completed without supervisor intervention, thereby protecting the driver from lying customers denying receipt. It also directs the driver to the exact pinpoint location of the entrance door to the delivery point — invaluable if it’s a large luxury flats development with 12 separate entrances and/or you’re not familiar with the round.

You cite the parcel hubs as a sign of doom and gloom. Evening deliveries are demanded by a big sector of consumers, and in turn retailers are wanting to offer evening delivery as standard. New niche carriers like Hived are creaming this premium sector of the market and are taking the regular work with it - retailers are likely to go with carriers who can provide a one-stop shop for their needs.

But who said that people are going to be working 80 hours a week delivering parcels? I didn’t. If RM want, or need, to deliver into the night, they will need to recruit for a new twilight shift, no? People may of course volunteer for overtime, but it’s a massive assumption to jump to in suggesting people will have to work 80 hours a week. Indeed, no one can be forced to work more than an average of 48 hours on a given week - see the Working Time Directive for further info.

Hmmm yet again a RM postie who seems to know a lot about the process of us and other companies and is quoting it as the complete truth, i have no reason to doubt what you say about these processes as i have no knowledge of how other companies work. As a mere postie/delivery person i am not really sure what reason you would have to dig down into the process and start quoting how to make savings and improve delivery method, unless you aren't what you say you are, again i am not accusing you of not being a postie just wondering why you are so interested, RM has a process whereby you can put forward any money saving ideas, maybe that's the place for all this.
All these criticisms of RM method lead me to wonder why work at this old dinosaur? Unless working here is better than elsewhere, just a thought.

Hmm, how strange! And what is wrong with trying to understand the whole logistics process? Why is that suspicious or strange to you? Do you have no idea at all as to how the letters on your frame for delivery got there in the first place?! Of course not.

Yes, working here is better than elsewhere. It is the cushiest little number I have encountered! I have not for a moment suggested otherwise. Less work for more money is a key benefit. It is only the old guard who keep moaning how awful RM is but yet refuse to leave as deep down they know how cushty their number is.

Yes let's try to belittle somebody who has no interest in what go's on above their pay grade, good on ye.
Spouting on about how cushy it is for you personally doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else, blaming the "old guard" for all problems within RM as though it's the real reason for problems within this company, all reasons why people will push back on you and question your standing in RM.
But sure you're not a troll and in no way are you attempting to get peoples backs up.
Have fun!!

You can’t call everyone who you don’t agree with a ‘troll’ scotchy Big boys and girls debate doesn’t work like that. It is fine to have differing opinions of the job.

[TopperGas]

"It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes."

Is this really the case or a bit of fiction? During the Christmas period we had postie's leaving the DO at 7am on our DPR's and I'm certain it hadn't taken them 2 hours to sort their parcels, prior to joining RM I worked briefly at a Amazon solation depot and it seemed just as labour intensive as a RM DO, my sole job for my shift was to manually sort parcels into post code areas, not unlike sorting parcels into duty areas in the DO.

So you’re calling me a liar?

No, you had other posties like me coming in early over the Xmas period on OT to scan, sort and number the DPR parcels so the drivers could get out early, usually by 9.00 am. What you’re on about — a very small number of posties taking out some tracked items for paired walks at 7.00 am — is NOT a DPR. Those posties are instead doing a very small fixed round where it isn’t necessary to sort and number the packages. We have them in our office too. How can DPR drivers be getting out at 7.00 am when the IPS is still barely underway and shuttles are still bringing the work in!

As I have said, and I reiterate, the process of staging a DPR is mega inefficient and takes up to two hours for a large route. It requires scanning each parcel twice - once in RON to manifest, then once in Outdoor to identify the drop number so the parcel can be numbered. That means moving and handling the parcel twice just in this bit of the process.

And what is an “Amazon solation depot”. Do you mean an Amazon delivery station? Or an Amazon fulfilment centre? Not sure how long ago you claim to have been an Amazon associate but I can assure you that isn’t how it’s ever been done during my lengthy time there (though it may have been done that way in the early stages of Amazon Logistics (2016/2017). Given your Amazon expertise, perhaps you can enlighten us all about the staging process then? You are talking rubbish! The routing, sortation and consequent driver aid stickers (numbering of parcels) is fully automated and is done upstream (i.e. not at the delivery station) by Amazon’s algorithm. The only exception to this is at Fresh Logistics stations (grocery delivery), where associates do play a role in zoning and staging bags onto trollies.

I can assure you our DO had posties leaving the office to do DPR's at 7am as I was one of them, I got in at 6:30, picked up a PDA, logged in, did a van check, scanned my parcels to a DPR route, ran RON, downloaded the route to Outdoor loaded the van and was off delivering by 7 most days. No idea why you need to scan parcels twice as if you know the delivery route there's no need to number a parcel as you don't need RON to tell you how to load your van and you just delver the parcels in the order you've loaded the van, do you actually delivery parcels on a regular basis?

As far as Amazon as I only worked at one depot I can only tell you what their own practices were 3 years ago, regardless the more automated a DO becomes the less jobs will be required, I'm not sure that's a good move for your average postie.

[Smoothbackground]

"It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes."

Is this really the case or a bit of fiction? During the Christmas period we had postie's leaving the DO at 7am on our DPR's and I'm certain it hadn't taken them 2 hours to sort their parcels, prior to joining RM I worked briefly at a Amazon solation depot and it seemed just as labour intensive as a RM DO, my sole job for my shift was to manually sort parcels into post code areas, not unlike sorting parcels into duty areas in the DO.

So you’re calling me a liar?

No, you had other posties like me coming in early over the Xmas period on OT to scan, sort and number the DPR parcels so the drivers could get out early, usually by 9.00 am. What you’re on about — a very small number of posties taking out some tracked items for paired walks at 7.00 am — is NOT a DPR. Those posties are instead doing a very small fixed round where it isn’t necessary to sort and number the packages. We have them in our office too. How can DPR drivers be getting out at 7.00 am when the IPS is still barely underway and shuttles are still bringing the work in!

As I have said, and I reiterate, the process of staging a DPR is mega inefficient and takes up to two hours for a large route. It requires scanning each parcel twice - once in RON to manifest, then once in Outdoor to identify the drop number so the parcel can be numbered. That means moving and handling the parcel twice just in this bit of the process.

And what is an “Amazon solation depot”. Do you mean an Amazon delivery station? Or an Amazon fulfilment centre? Not sure how long ago you claim to have been an Amazon associate but I can assure you that isn’t how it’s ever been done during my lengthy time there (though it may have been done that way in the early stages of Amazon Logistics (2016/2017). Given your Amazon expertise, perhaps you can enlighten us all about the staging process then? You are talking rubbish! The routing, sortation and consequent driver aid stickers (numbering of parcels) is fully automated and is done upstream (i.e. not at the delivery station) by Amazon’s algorithm. The only exception to this is at Fresh Logistics stations (grocery delivery), where associates do play a role in zoning and staging bags onto trollies.

I can assure you our DO had posties leaving the office to do DPR's at 7am as I was one of them, I got in at 6:30, picked up a PDA, logged in, did a van check, scanned my parcels to a DPR route, ran RON, downloaded the route to Outdoor loaded the van and was off delivering by 7 most days. No idea why you need to scan parcels twice as if you know the delivery route there's no need to number a parcel as you don't need RON to tell you how to load your van and you just delver the parcels in the order you've loaded the van, do you actually delivery parcels on a regular basis?

As far as Amazon as I only worked at one depot I can only tell you what their own practices were 3 years ago, regardless the more automated a DO becomes the less jobs will be required, I'm not sure that's a good move for your average postie.

Our DPR drivers were taking out upwards of 170 packets and parcels and didn’t have the luxury of knowing the route. Furthermore, even knowing the route, with that volume of parcels it is necessary to number them just so that they can be easily found, otherwise it is searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack. How many stops was your own DPR?

[Mr Rush]

Yeah, that's the change I'm not looking forward to. I'm not against RM modernising and having parcel hubs, but if we are all starting later due to having less indoor work then what's the benefit for us other than bigger outdoor spans and finishing later??

It's a shame that RM are neglecting their only unique selling point in delivering letters, especially as nearly half of our revenue comes from it.

On later starts and unique selling points: I vividly recall the DOM in September 2007 saying he was opposed to later starts (dispatch went from 9AM to 10AM that October) because he believed we were progressively surrendering the AM delivery period which was uniquely ours. If they do pull the trigger at their temple, I'd love to throw his words back at him because he's up at sector level these days.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”