Delivery staff leaving royal mail.

[BELIAL]

bollocks.

[Smoothbackground]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary. To survive and prosper into the future they must do that. Some of those processes would undoubtedly benefit those of us at the coalface, and so we should encourage and support it where it makes sense to do so. To be clear, though, let’s not have a race to the bottom! Hopefully it has bottomed out as much as it will do…

[postslippete]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary.

The company as a whole made over a billion pounds profit during the pandemic. It's a privatised industry that uses creative accounting to conveniently make 'losses' because it desperately wants rid of the USO which will allow it to make even greater profits in the future. These parcel hubs that RM have spent billions on could mean staff having to work into the night delivering parcels. Now from your perspective that might be great for people who want to work 80 hours a week in the short term; but it is not positive for most people who want a life and have a family to look after.

The CWU knew that this day was coming and aspired for a shorter working week to compensate for larger outdoor spans. Instead we got a pay rise but ended up working more hours due to seasonal variations.

[LouBarlow]

How are we working more hours? The working week will be shorter during the summer months.

[postslippete]

How are we working more hours? The working week will be shorter during the summer months.

The union originally wanted us to have a 35 hour working week all year round not just in the summer. Seasonal variations is something that benefits the company more than us.

[scotchy1962]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary. To survive and prosper into the future they must do that. Some of those processes would undoubtedly benefit those of us at the coalface, and so we should encourage and support it where it makes sense to do so. To be clear, though, let’s not have a race to the bottom! Hopefully it has bottomed out as much as it will do…

It was you yourself who said they gave up a indoor job for this, i was unaware that you had done all this delivery as you neglected to mention it.
But needless to say mentioning all these awful physical jobs doesn't mean that we should be thankful for not doing these. I am sure you were given the tools to do said jobs and if not, why not?
In RM we always had parcelforce to shift the oversize, then they decided to just dump it on the postie without warning or supplying the tools. And the weight you are meant to lift has been decided by the company not us.
Saying we should adopt what everyone else does isn't sensible as you will always end up with exactly what they all have, the race to the bottom!
Our terms and conditions are better than most and if you erode them much more you will just become the rest.
You imply we should be thankful, but then say we mustn't join the race to the bottom so where do we go? Everything the rest do enhances that so it has to stop or we join them.

[Smoothbackground]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary. To survive and prosper into the future they must do that. Some of those processes would undoubtedly benefit those of us at the coalface, and so we should encourage and support it where it makes sense to do so. To be clear, though, let’s not have a race to the bottom! Hopefully it has bottomed out as much as it will do…

It was you yourself who said they gave up a indoor job for this, i was unaware that you had done all this delivery as you neglected to mention it.
But needless to say mentioning all these awful physical jobs doesn't mean that we should be thankful for not doing these. I am sure you were given the tools to do said jobs and if not, why not?
In RM we always had parcelforce to shift the oversize, then they decided to just dump it on the postie without warning or supplying the tools. And the weight you are meant to lift has been decided by the company not us.
Saying we should adopt what everyone else does isn't sensible as you will always end up with exactly what they all have, the race to the bottom!
Our terms and conditions are better than most and if you erode them much more you will just become the rest.
You imply we should be thankful, but then say we mustn't join the race to the bottom so where do we go? Everything the rest do enhances that so it has to stop or we join them.

I didn’t neglect anything, pal. Indeed, I I have referred to my Amazon work at some length elsewhere on this forum. It is a simple case of you don’t know me, nor me you, and hence there’s all sorts about me that you’re not aware of and never will be.

[Smoothbackground]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary.

The company as a whole made over a billion pounds profit during the pandemic. It's a privatised industry that uses creative accounting to conveniently make 'losses' because it desperately wants rid of the USO which will allow it to make even greater profits in the future. These parcel hubs that RM have spent billions on could mean staff having to work into the night delivering parcels. Now from your perspective that might be great for people who want to work 80 hours a week in the short term; but it is not positive for most people who want a life and have a family to look after.

The CWU knew that this day was coming and aspired for a shorter working week to compensate for larger outdoor spans. Instead we got a pay rise but ended up working more hours due to seasonal variations.

I don’t doubt that creative accounting has been deployed — all businesses do it. But the fact remains; the old dinosaur does need to keep up. The product that RM continues to churn out, a clunky 12-inch B&W Television, is no longer wanted by customers, and they aren’t buying them. The customers want a 4K 75-inch TV. Sorry for the rubbish analogy!

But the processes at RM are unnecessarily clunky, massively inefficient and labour intensive. Some examples:

It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes.

Geofencing used by other carriers mean it is, in theory at least, impossible to mis-deliver an item to the wrong address, as the system won’t allow the delivery to be completed without supervisor intervention, thereby protecting the driver from lying customers denying receipt. It also directs the driver to the exact pinpoint location of the entrance door to the delivery point — invaluable if it’s a large luxury flats development with 12 separate entrances and/or you’re not familiar with the round.

You cite the parcel hubs as a sign of doom and gloom. Evening deliveries are demanded by a big sector of consumers, and in turn retailers are wanting to offer evening delivery as standard. New niche carriers like Hived are creaming this premium sector of the market and are taking the regular work with it - retailers are likely to go with carriers who can provide a one-stop shop for their needs.

But who said that people are going to be working 80 hours a week delivering parcels? I didn’t. If RM want, or need, to deliver into the night, they will need to recruit for a new twilight shift, no? People may of course volunteer for overtime, but it’s a massive assumption to jump to in suggesting people will have to work 80 hours a week. Indeed, no one can be forced to work more than an average of 48 hours on a given week - see the Working Time Directive for further info.

[BELIAL]

night tonic

[Navalron]

But what's the old rate v new rates per hour? The old is around £13 per hour, I doubt even with 25% mark up it's any greater?

The “new” rate is £14.58 per hour, with overtime above 40 hours paid at £18.23 per hour.

Your still a new start. The older London contracts are about £16 per hour with £27 delivery supplement and more holidays which you don't get. So you are working beside people doing the exact same job and getting paid less. On average RM are doing you out of about £80 per week when it comes to the new contracts.

[Navalron]

I’ve just checked and minimum wage is £10.42 an hour. I can’t be alone in earning more than that surely?

It's going up to £11.44 from April 2024.

[Smoothbackground]

But what's the old rate v new rates per hour? The old is around £13 per hour, I doubt even with 25% mark up it's any greater?

The “new” rate is £14.58 per hour, with overtime above 40 hours paid at £18.23 per hour.

Your still a new start. The older London contracts are about £16 per hour with £27 delivery supplement and more holidays which you don't get. So you are working beside people doing the exact same job and getting paid less. On average RM are doing you out of about £80 per week when it comes to the new contracts.

So what? Blame the union. I’m happy with my lot though, thanks

[Navalron]

But sorry, just one point I missed. We mustn’t conflate “race to the bottom”, which should of course be avoided at all costs, with RM trying to emulate and replicate the very many positive efficiencies and automated processes that Amazon and others in the industry use — which is positive and necessary. To survive and prosper into the future they must do that. Some of those processes would undoubtedly benefit those of us at the coalface, and so we should encourage and support it where it makes sense to do so. To be clear, though, let’s not have a race to the bottom! Hopefully it has bottomed out as much as it will do…

You've only seen the delivery side of RM. You've been there a matter of minutes compared to a lot of staff. We will see if your attitude changes over the coming months. But if you want to work for less pay and worse conditions than other staff that's your choice. Every sunday, you will just get the basic rate. You don't get Sunday premium or shift allowances. You probably don't know about all the other pay related shift payments ect. But not to worry, YOU DON'T GET THEM. I left RM and I'm now work for DWP and we have a few people starting on inferior terms and conditions but there not happy like you are. Well good luck to you anyway.

[TopperGas]

"It takes two hours of indoor work to prep and sort parcels for a busy DPR route, yet Amazon use robots and automated processes to do this work (they call it “staging”), meaning the same process takes only eight minutes - yes, eight minutes."

Is this really the case or a bit of fiction? During the Christmas period we had postie's leaving the DO at 7am on our DPR's and I'm certain it hadn't taken them 2 hours to sort their parcels, prior to joining RM I worked briefly at a Amazon solation depot and it seemed just as labour intensive as a RM DO, my sole job for my shift was to manually sort parcels into post code areas, not unlike sorting parcels into duty areas in the DO.

[LouBarlow]

I’ve just checked and minimum wage is £10.42 an hour. I can’t be alone in earning more than that surely?

It's going up to £11.44 from April 2024.

Good. And my post was accurate when I made it. Over two months ago.