Delivery staff leaving royal mail.

[mwalker88]

i've just left this week after 17 years service through ill health.......backs gone and directly caused by the job

the last national revision in 2021 ultimately killed any goodwill, drive for performance and quality that RM once had and sadly have beaten it to a pulp lying face down in the gutter......

asset stripped and still is considering the drivell of "no early prep OT" lockdowns when stuff like this happens, it's penny pinching from those regional management that ultimately destroy any chance of clearing duties.

The national revision was rushed in ,without any thought to the USO or any health impacts upon the posties trying to deliver it - yes some offices only got "20 minutes increase" but that makes much more difference when the loops are designed to be longer and to keep walking non-stop for longer with either carrying weight or pushing/pulling it.

I'm sure everyone would agree that when the changeover happened to the now destoryed duties, that you felt it Alot more than normal, because of the longer loops.

It's not a case of it's a young persons game, its more how physically fit you Really are kinda job

I bet that at least 50% of the Delivery posties who have left this year were some of the best most conscientious workers that RM had.

All that matters to higher management is numbers £££ on spreadsheets.

Quality control means nothing to these people, a quick buck and onto the next coveted gravy boat to asset strip down to the bone.

It's morally bankrupt and honestly should be illegal.

[sixfoottwo]

Last day for me tomorrow after 25yrs service, will miss most of the office guys but apart from that nothing else.

Some really great people I've worked with, wish them the best.

[guardianangel]

Wait until April for the mass exodus ,then the remaining old contract will be attacked again with the union this time pretty much useless to stop anything.

[Quickchat1]

I think

New staff on shitey contracts are what the company is all about.
It's a race to the bottom Lou, are you blind?

Think you need a reality check, bruv. Although it is inferior to your terms and conditions of employment, it isn’t at all “shitey” when compared to other jobs elsewhere in industry - over £30k just for five days, holiday pay, life insurance, productivitt bonuses, overtime at enhanced rates... in actual fact it is head and shoulders above comparable jobs.

Go and do a few months on the DPD or Amazon vans, with no holiday pay, no sick pay, exorbitant van and running costs, unpaid days off imposed at whim, no union to whip up unnecessary petty squabbles with management, massive workload - far bigger than yours, trust me, I’ve done both jobs - and you’ll be regretting ever leaving your cushty RM job and its security and benefits. You’ve had it too easy for too long, and now that RM is trying to bring itself into the real, modern world, and you along with it, you are hard done by.

Against that backdrop, that is why many of us on “shitey contracts” are enthusiastic, happy to go the extra mile - and even get on with the managers.

I’ve spent a year in Royal Mail now, finally going permanent in September. I’ve worked for varying lengths in at least 12 different DOs during that time. The culture is like something stuck in the ‘70s. In no other job in industry can you get away with being subordinate, rude and workshy – except RM, that is. The managers I’ve encountered have nearly always been on the defensive, expecting you to kick up a fuss about anything and everything – because, of course, that is what they get from a small but sizeable minority of the existing longstanding staff.

And no, I’m not a troll!

What a clown. After one month I'm done. What the majority of the board has been saying is true. Are u the type to run around the streets like a madman? Are you foreign? All the longtimers don't seem subordinate to me. I'm subordinate cos I can't believe the s**t that comes out the managers mouth, it's obvious they're used 2 dealing with beaten down submissive new starts

[LouBarlow]

Not sure what his or her nationality has to do with it, but if he or she is ‘foreign’, it is a credit to the educational standards of their respective country, as their grasp of English, eclipses yours. As a second language too! Respect.

[Smoothbackground]

I think

New staff on shitey contracts are what the company is all about.
It's a race to the bottom Lou, are you blind?

Think you need a reality check, bruv. Although it is inferior to your terms and conditions of employment, it isn’t at all “shitey” when compared to other jobs elsewhere in industry - over £30k just for five days, holiday pay, life insurance, productivitt bonuses, overtime at enhanced rates... in actual fact it is head and shoulders above comparable jobs.

Go and do a few months on the DPD or Amazon vans, with no holiday pay, no sick pay, exorbitant van and running costs, unpaid days off imposed at whim, no union to whip up unnecessary petty squabbles with management, massive workload - far bigger than yours, trust me, I’ve done both jobs - and you’ll be regretting ever leaving your cushty RM job and its security and benefits. You’ve had it too easy for too long, and now that RM is trying to bring itself into the real, modern world, and you along with it, you are hard done by.

Against that backdrop, that is why many of us on “shitey contracts” are enthusiastic, happy to go the extra mile - and even get on with the managers.

I’ve spent a year in Royal Mail now, finally going permanent in September. I’ve worked for varying lengths in at least 12 different DOs during that time. The culture is like something stuck in the ‘70s. In no other job in industry can you get away with being subordinate, rude and workshy – except RM, that is. The managers I’ve encountered have nearly always been on the defensive, expecting you to kick up a fuss about anything and everything – because, of course, that is what they get from a small but sizeable minority of the existing longstanding staff.

And no, I’m not a troll!

What a clown. After one month I'm done. What the majority of the board has been saying is true. Are u the type to run around the streets like a madman? Are you foreign? All the longtimers don't seem subordinate to me. I'm subordinate cos I can't believe the s**t that comes out the managers mouth, it's obvious they're used 2 dealing with beaten down submissive new starts

Not foreign. Not submissive. And definitely not an idiot. I’m surmising you may be these things though. After just a mere month, why didn’t you stick up for yourself and speak up? How could you be be so “beaten down” so soon after starting a new job? Did you enter the role at a low ebb?

As for my own situation, the only people I have had trouble or issues with during my time at RM has been the small but sizeable minority of old-guard OPGs who have a chip on their shoulder about being superior to the new starters and therefore think they can bully or harass newcomers. Do appreciate that the culture and behaviour in each DO varies to some extent, though this sizeable minority I mention exists in every office I’ve worked at thus far — and tellingly, as you yourself rightly identify, exists here on this forum, since it does seem that the “majority of the board” (this forum) are members of that chip-on-shoulder brigade.

[Smoothbackground]

Not sure what his or her nationality has to do with it, but if he or she is ‘foreign’, it is a credit to the educational standards of their respective country, as their grasp of English, eclipses yours. As a second language too! Respect.

Cheers buddy, appreciate your support. Glad there are a few voices of reason on this forum

[Quickchat1]

Not sure what his or her nationality has to do with it, but if he or she is ‘foreign’, it is a credit to the educational standards of their respective country, as their grasp of English, eclipses yours. As a second language too! Respect.

Cheers buddy, appreciate your support. Glad there are a few voices of reason on this forum

I'll use my best playground language. 'COS they seem more eager to please and risk their health all for the overall Royal mail cause. I am just generalising here, as there are plenty of British people I've seen that don't seem to question the Managers as much as I do and some foreigners that are abit slap dash with their work.
So never mind me, before you lot get your panties in a twist.

I'm just rying to pinpoint what makes some people except the conditions but I guess everyone's motivation for applying and educational and employment skills are vastly different and that reflects in what they will be willing to accept here.

[Quickchat1]

If Royal Mail advertised the job as is, there's no way I would be on this forum discussing the life of being a new postie in 2023.

[scotchy1962]

There are doubtless lots of reasons why they fail to retain some new recruits. Yes, a lack of flexibility with days off might be one of them. The disdain, animosity, hostility and disrespect shown by a small section of longstanding staff towards new recruits might be another big reason too. Despite the permanent job label, others may just see it as a short term job with guaranteed income for the duration and never intend to stay for anything more than a short time.

Not sure where you think you are going with this, constant harping on about longstanding staffs attitudes isn't going to aid any argument. I have worked in numerous jobs in all sorts of different spheres and it's the same everywhere you work, the newbies always get a hard time until they stand up for themselves and most of what you are saying isn't a postie problem but more a normal human frailty.
Anyway less of the freudian analysis and back to your view of the postie, i fancy working in the sector you did for 20yrs protected you from what goes on further down the food chain and us mere minions getting steadily pushed face first into the mud. Its also easy to walk into this job, and because it is so different from what you did before, think how great it is working outside in the fresh air and meeting people. I worked inside for over 30yrs and loved being outside.
But give it enough time and the physical side of this job will get you, back in the day it was the relentless letters and visiting 90%+ of addresses most days, now its the parcels and packets along side the mail, which although much less still has to be delivered, that gets to you. And the parcel size and weight which used to be sensible but now can be anything they want it seems, they don't supply the correct tools to do the job but expect you to do it without question.
I would suggest giving yourself some time and experience before having a go at us mere posties, we aren't responsible for human faults and you will find ignoramuses everywhere in life not just within RM.

[Smoothbackground]

There are doubtless lots of reasons why they fail to retain some new recruits. Yes, a lack of flexibility with days off might be one of them. The disdain, animosity, hostility and disrespect shown by a small section of longstanding staff towards new recruits might be another big reason too. Despite the permanent job label, others may just see it as a short term job with guaranteed income for the duration and never intend to stay for anything more than a short time.

Not sure where you think you are going with this, constant harping on about longstanding staffs attitudes isn't going to aid any argument. I have worked in numerous jobs in all sorts of different spheres and it's the same everywhere you work, the newbies always get a hard time until they stand up for themselves and most of what you are saying isn't a postie problem but more a normal human frailty.
Anyway less of the freudian analysis and back to your view of the postie, i fancy working in the sector you did for 20yrs protected you from what goes on further down the food chain and us mere minions getting steadily pushed face first into the mud. Its also easy to walk into this job, and because it is so different from what you did before, think how great it is working outside in the fresh air and meeting people. I worked inside for over 30yrs and loved being outside.
But give it enough time and the physical side of this job will get you, back in the day it was the relentless letters and visiting 90%+ of addresses most days, now its the parcels and packets along side the mail, which although much less still has to be delivered, that gets to you. And the parcel size and weight which used to be sensible but now can be anything they want it seems, they don't supply the correct tools to do the job but expect you to do it without question.
I would suggest giving yourself some time and experience before having a go at us mere posties, we aren't responsible for human faults and you will find ignoramuses everywhere in life not just within RM.

You hypothesise about me without knowing my background. Immediately prior to joining RM, I spent just under five years working outdoors as an Amazon DSP driver, also doing ad hoc stints with other overnight carriers. So six years of “outdoor working” - and proper hard work. Any novelty factor wore off long ago. I implore you to go and do just one day on the Amazon vans during Xmas peak, delivering over 300 packages, and then come back with your condescending spiel! There is no harder outdoor job than DSP driving, trust me. Go try it if you don’t believe me.

Going back 20 years before that, I did multidrop for what was then Parceline (now known as DPD) on a bulk route (i.e. delivering XL parcels, pallets and suchlike). This was outdoors. I also worked on newsprint contracts, handballing 200 bundles of The Telegraph every night from Westferry Printers - this girl also has a Class C LGV driving licence! And on a RentACrate contract as well, handballing and moving 120 kg of coffin-sized crates in one go on a trolley from the back of a 17-tonner, making multiple trips with 20 crates at a time (120 kg). Shall I set out some more of my CV so that you can be satisfied I am qualified to express an opinion? Happy to - within reason!

So with respect, I think I’m qualified to venture an opinion on boys’ “outdoor work”, ta. Unless you’re telling me RM work in a parallel universe where “RM outdoors” is in no way comparable to anything I’ve listed above?

And so back to the debate at hand…. RM parcel workload is in no way comparable to an Amazon driver’s workload, even at its busiest or most demanding. Indeed, it is a very cushty little number in comparison. On, and the parcel sizes are much smaller, given they’re a maximum of 20 kg - all other competitors do a 30 kg max weight.

And yes, you get ignorance and rudeness in all walks of life, all jobs, but my real point is that at RM there is the biggest concentration of ignorant and rude people that I have encountered. Nowhere else would people get away with the disrespect, bullying and harassment, not to mention sometimes implicit racism and sexism, that they do at RM. The culture is like something out of the 1970s and needs to change - urgently.

[LouBarlow]

Yeah, the problem is, once you have been a postie, as long as some here, you become institutionalised and have no real appreciation of employment out there in the real world. This is still a decently paid, comparatively easy job, which is why all those old timers never quit, despite all their moaning. The grass is always greener.

[postslippete]

And so back to the debate at hand…. RM parcel workload is in no way comparable to an Amazon driver’s workload, even at its busiest or most demanding. Indeed, it is a very cushty little number in comparison. On, and the parcel sizes are much smaller, given they’re a maximum of 20 kg - all other competitors do a 30 kg max weight.

We have a few guys that have worked at Amazon. From what I've heard it's not a great place to work and has a high staff retention with staff working very unsociable and long hours and being docked pay for customer complaints. It is the 'gig economy' and this company makes huge profits on the back of employing people on inferior contracts and pay. It's an absolute credit that you have managed to stay there for that long, so why did you leave??

I'll help answer this one for you because few of us would want to aspire to work that way. If anything, Amazon need to be looking after their workers better so they aren't delivering in the dark and dumping parcels on the doorstep because they are racing round trying to do 300 drops a day just to earn a living. Whilst I'm grateful for some of our pay and conditions, surely the rest of the industry needs to catch up? You can't ignore the fact that thousands have left Royal Mail in its quest to race us to the bottom. And that's not good for anybody.

*edit* other than large shareholders and those higher up on bonuses

[BELIAL]

why do they bother? They sound like aliens. Nothing they spout bears any resemblance to my experience of working for RM.

[Smoothbackground]

And so back to the debate at hand…. RM parcel workload is in no way comparable to an Amazon driver’s workload, even at its busiest or most demanding. Indeed, it is a very cushty little number in comparison. On, and the parcel sizes are much smaller, given they’re a maximum of 20 kg - all other competitors do a 30 kg max weight.

We have a few guys that have worked at Amazon. From what I've heard it's not a great place to work and has a high staff retention with staff working very unsociable and long hours and being docked pay for customer complaints. It is the 'gig economy' and this company makes huge profits on the back of employing people on inferior contracts and pay. It's an absolute credit that you have managed to stay there for that long, so why did you leave??

I'll help answer this one for you because few of us would want to aspire to work that way. If anything, Amazon need to be looking after their workers better so they aren't delivering in the dark and dumping parcels on the doorstep because they are racing round trying to do 300 drops a day just to earn a living. Whilst I'm grateful for some of our pay and conditions, surely the rest of the industry needs to catch up? You can't ignore the fact that thousands have left Royal Mail in its quest to race us to the bottom. And that's not good for anybody.

*edit* other than large shareholders and those higher up on bonuses

You raise very valid points. The industry generally is a shitshow, and other players, Amazon especially, need to improve how they treat their people doing the last mile. They should employ them on proper contracts like RM.

First thing - you never work for Amazon. Instead, you work for a DSP - a delivery service partner - who is itself a contractor to Amazon. It’s basically a franchise they buy from Amazon Logistics (“Amazon”). Within a given delivery station (depot) you might have eight, nine or ten different DSPs, each with a daily presence of about 15 or 20 vans, across several waves, starting at 7.30 am or earlier and going up to 6.00 pm, and with a need to be able to flex up to 30 or 40 vans at Amazon’s whim. Amazon set and dictate absolutely everything - the DSP setup is a “front” for all intents and purposes, just to legally protect Amazon. To be absolutely clear, the brutal working conditions are dictated by Amazon, not the DSPs, and the DSPs are mere mouthpieces for Amazon. This means DSPs having drivers on unpaid standby. Many unscrupulous DSPs make their real money through van hire (hiring to their drivers) or by artificially inflating repair bills etc. You can be paying £280 each week for a van and insurance yet only work two days - in other words, you owe the boss money! Others offer daily van hire and treat their drivers fairly. Once you work for one DSP, you soon figure out who the good and bad ones are.

How did I last so long as a DSP driver? Good question! After working for two awful DSPs within the same station, I ended up with a third DSP who was the best of a bad bunch and who was able to accommodate my need to have changing days off each week. The flexibility was a big thing for me as I had caring responsibilities to juggle it all with and I would often need to swap days or waves. Being able to take a day off at short notice made the difference between me being able to work and being on the dole. A supposedly short term thing ended up being just shy of five years in all, three years with my final DSP.

To be honest, I would have carried on with it, but last November (2022) one of the boys mentioned Ryde paying £24 an hour to deliver parcels for RM, and so I had my first taste of RM! After Christmas 2022, I carried on doing the Ryde shifts at £16.58 per hour and combined it with Amazon - but only doing Amazon work as a last resort when there were no Ryde or Manpower shifts. When my relative (deliberately not being more specific!) died earlier this year and my caring responsibilities were sadly no longer needed, it seemed an opportune time to get back into the real world with a regular job with RM — or so I thought! So to cut a long story short, while the working conditions were often brutal, it perfectly suited my personal circumstances.

Edit - to clarify, I am talking about 300 parcels, not 300 drops! But given a single Amazon “grouped stop” could be eight houses on the same street it could still equate to 220 or so delivery points. They try to make it more palatable on the numbers by grouping stops in the daily snapshot!