LTB 191/23 - RMG/CWU Business Recovery, Transformation And Growth Agreement - Appendix 1, Seasonal Variation

[heraldmoth]

Can’t talk to some people, only herd them

[Woody Guthrie]

Legally there isn't an issue with not being paid or working for free, the hours are being "banked" and repaid next summer.

The only issue was whether we should gain by only working 35 hrs in the summer first or the business by introducing it in the winter but there would probably be an equally large section of the membership who didn't like the idea of owing the business hours, this way any existing members at least know if they leave they can never owe the business anything.

As long as it balances over the 12 month period nobody is working for free.

That doesn't mean I like it or even think it will work but there's nothing unlawful about it.

You could challenge it individually if you have particular commitments outside of work but bearing in mind our start times will be moving later next year it's difficult to see where your argument would go after this winter.

[LouBarlow]

You could challenge it individually if you have particular commitments outside of work but bearing in mind our start times will be moving later next year it's difficult to see where your argument would go after this winter.

Isn’t the seasonal variation hour changes to the start of duty anyway? I.e. start earlier in the winter? It would be hard to argue a case for this affecting your life outside of work.

[Jack1960]

You could challenge it individually if you have particular commitments outside of work but bearing in mind our start times will be moving later next year it's difficult to see where your argument would go after this winter.

Isn’t the seasonal variation hour changes to the start of duty anyway? I.e. start earlier in the winter? It would be hard to argue a case for this affecting your life outside of work.

This is the pig in the poke of the agreement, how long will our outdoor duty be? We will be starting 24 mins early, add on ,if any, reduction in under the roof hours, possible later day and pay and mod flexible 30 mins.

[Pidleypoo]

Has anyone bothered to mention how this affects annual leave from Royal Mail or the union?

I asked out are rep and he didn’t have a clue.

Pretty useless of them.

Does leave continue as normal or as it is done in hours, more leave in winter means you’ll have less to use in the other ‘seasons ‘ because that also means they’ll be less slots to choose from with there being the 3 seasons.

We are a shambles of a company.

[Woody Guthrie]

Has anyone bothered to mention how this affects annual leave from Royal Mail or the union?.

Yes.
There's a Q&A on the first page of this thread.

Your annual leave balance is managed in hours. Once Seasonal Variation starts, for every day's annual leave you take, your leave balance will be deducted at the planned daily hours for that point in the year. So, if you take a day's leave in the summer you will use up slightly less leave than in the winter.

There will be no change to your booked and planned annual leave under Seasonal Variation. For the annual leave year of 2023 to March 2024, if there is any deficit in your annual leave balance caused by Seasonal Variation, then this will be waived, so you do not lose out.

As per the agreement, Royal Mail and CWU will also jointly review the current guidance for annual leave planning arrangements after the pilot concludes in August 2023.

[scotchy1962]

As said before "if it isn't etched in stone" chances where always likely that RM would just do as they please. Leaving them the opportunity to interpret parts of the agreement as they seen fit.
You reap what you sow and i don't see this changing over the period of this agreement so best to just buckle up now.
Blaming the Yes voters won't change anything, we will still have to deal with what has been agreed.
Democracy has spoken, we might not like it, but it has and we all have to deal with it. I would like a more robust reply from the union but they are in danger of becoming irrelevant in the workplace and i think we all know that a change in direction is required for them or it will be a slow death for it.

[LouBarlow]

As said before "if it isn't etched in stone" chances where always likely that RM would just do as they please. Leaving them the opportunity to interpret parts of the agreement as they seen fit.
You reap what you sow and i don't see this changing over the period of this agreement so best to just buckle up now.
Blaming the Yes voters won't change anything, we will still have to deal with what has been agreed.
Democracy has spoken, we might not like it, but it has and we all have to deal with it. I would like a more robust reply from the union but they are in danger of becoming irrelevant in the workplace and i think we all know that a change in direction is required for them or it will be a slow death for it.

Which change of direction would you suggest?

[Woody Guthrie]

The problem the union has is that ultimately its first priority has to be to secure our employment, there's no point in having high principles on the dole.

You would have to be in complete denial to think that the job can continue as it has, letter volume is going to continue to drop until it becomes unsustainable to deliver over 6 days and then probably over 5 as well.

It's up to the union to manage us through that in damage limitation mode until hopefully there's a sustainable although probably completely different job at the other end.

My issue with this deal is not the explicit changes in it but how much room it gives Royal Mail to change without agreement, if there's a change of direction needed it has to involve a tougher and more robust stance in the Joint Working Groups.

We need people involved in these groups on both sides who actually know the impact of the proposed changes on front line staff, not career reps who haven't delivered a letter in 30 years or managers straight out of university. That's just planning to fail.

[Nickvilla20]

It’s seems the top or Royal Mail and the CWU have no idea what actually happens in the work environment. The CWU promising a no strings pay rise was a very amateurish mistake especially when letters volumes are way down. The top of the company have also been very amateurish by wanting to attack its own workforce and try to bring in a model which would never work.

Five years from now the job won’t be recognisable we will probably have a five day USO but it will be a 3 to 4 day letter service. Deliveries will be made much bigger and you will you probably have to constantly manage your frame or whatever new sorting procedure they bring in.

It will be market forces what dictates Royal Mails future not the union or the management.

[Pidleypoo]

Has anyone bothered to mention how this affects annual leave from Royal Mail or the union?.

Yes.
There's a Q&A on the first page of this thread.

Your annual leave balance is managed in hours. Once Seasonal Variation starts, for every day's annual leave you take, your leave balance will be deducted at the planned daily hours for that point in the year. So, if you take a day's leave in the summer you will use up slightly less leave than in the winter.

There will be no change to your booked and planned annual leave under Seasonal Variation. For the annual leave year of 2023 to March 2024, if there is any deficit in your annual leave balance caused by Seasonal Variation, then this will be waived, so you do not lose out.

As per the agreement, Royal Mail and CWU will also jointly review the current guidance for annual leave planning arrangements after the pilot concludes in August 2023.

So I was right.

The area rep didn’t have a clue about this.

Now your annual leave will be harder to pick because of the 3 periods , more people will want summer leave meaning less people will actually get any and looking at it , from may to September.

It’s really hard to get leave now and more so on ad-hoc days which will now become virtually impossible.

[TopperGas]

It’s seems the top or Royal Mail and the CWU have no idea what actually happens in the work environment. The CWU promising a no strings pay rise was a very amateurish mistake especially when letters volumes are way down. The top of the company have also been very amateurish by wanting to attack its own workforce and try to bring in a model which would never work.

Five years from now the job won’t be recognisable we will probably have a five day USO but it will be a 3 to 4 day letter service. Deliveries will be made much bigger and you will you probably have to constantly manage your frame or whatever new sorting procedure they bring in.

It will be market forces what dictates Royal Mails future not the union or the management.

Can deliveries be made bigger indefinitely or will it reach a stage where HCT rounds are no longer practical i.e. if mail drops by another 50% you can't be expected to go from walking 20Km to 40Km a day.

Now it seems too late in the day the CWU are backing calls to reduce the USO to 5 days a week, why didn't they join forces with RM earlier in the year, I can't see the Government & OFCOM would have rejected a call from both RM & the CWU for a reduction, if they do that now it will look like a complete turnaround by the general public.

[Nickvilla20]

It’s seems the top or Royal Mail and the CWU have no idea what actually happens in the work environment. The CWU promising a no strings pay rise was a very amateurish mistake especially when letters volumes are way down. The top of the company have also been very amateurish by wanting to attack its own workforce and try to bring in a model which would never work.

Five years from now the job won’t be recognisable we will probably have a five day USO but it will be a 3 to 4 day letter service. Deliveries will be made much bigger and you will you probably have to constantly manage your frame or whatever new sorting procedure they bring in.

It will be market forces what dictates Royal Mails future not the union or the management.

Can deliveries be made bigger indefinitely or will it reach a stage where HCT rounds are no longer practical i.e. if mail drops by another 50% you can't be expected to go from walking 20Km to 40Km a day.

Now it seems too late in the day the CWU are backing calls to reduce the USO to 5 days a week, why didn't they join forces with RM earlier in the year, I can't see the Government & OFCOM would have rejected a call from both RM & the CWU for a reduction, if they do that now it will look like a complete turnaround by the general public.

I’m not sure why the CWU didn’t join Royal Mail in lobbying for a 5 days USO. Could have been the toxic environment Thompson created or it could have been the amount of people who applied for the much reduced redundancy package made them realise. Let’s be honest if they said most staff will work Monday to Friday many would go for it.

What I mean about deliveries getting much bigger is you won’t be expected to get done or take it all out. You will probably do 70% each day and will have to keep rotating what goes out. To be honest it’s anybody’s guess what’s going to happen today in my office all DPR routes have been taken out indefinitely and large packets have been put back on the walks.

[Rommagic]

They can't cover the dpr routes rest days and ask delivery staff too take bigger parcels mostly on overtime.

[Moose67]

Don't care anymore start time finish time 37 years of loyal service they don't care i don't management and union are now both the same