Vote result

[Hamish118]

Sadly yes or no doesn't matter. The fight was lost when privatisation happened. Deliver to many Do's Maol Centres. They are antiquated and not fit for purpose e.g.parcels. This is the running down, with no investment in old infrastructure. Sadly the end game will come one way or another its the Capitalist society's end game for all normal working people. We are all just a number expendable. Continued action was the only thing that could have maybe saved us! Union let us down there and missed the only opertunity we had.

[k979aaa]

The fact of the matter is we have been played by RM and now the CWU and OFCOM. Thing is in five years time all this will be forgotten it is not just the deception or giving the money we earned to feckless f***s in RM at the expense of the true workers. Thing is this is not just RM but the whole nation and every industry the Labour party is filled again with champagne socialism and Sir kir is a dick never in all my time has this country been led by the feckless and week to our detriment!

[k979aaa]

The fact of the matter is we have been played by RM and now the CWU and OFCOM. Thing is in five years time all this will be forgotten it is not just the deception or giving the money we earned to feckless f***s in RM at the expense of the true workers. Thing is this is not just RM but the whole nation and every industry the Labour party is filled again with champagne socialism and Sir kir is a dick never in all my time has this country been led by such the feckless and week government to our detriment!

[LouBarlow]

The fact of the matter is we have been played by RM and now the CWU and OFCOM. Thing is in five years time all this will be forgotten it is not just the deception or giving the money we earned to feckless f***s in RM at the expense of the true workers. Thing is this is not just RM but the whole nation and every industry the Labour party is filled again with champagne socialism and Sir kir is a dick never in all my time has this country been led by the feckless and week to our detriment!

What are you on about? You need to look up the meaning of champagne socialist as Labour are nothing of the sort since Corbyn departed. They are slightly better conservatives at this point.

[k979aaa]

The fact of the matter is we have been played by RM and now the CWU and OFCOM. Thing is in five years time all this will be forgotten it is not just the deception or giving the money we earned to feckless f***s in RM at the expense of the true workers. Thing is this is not just RM but the whole nation and every industry the Labour party is filled again with champagne socialism and Sir kir is a dick never in all my time has this country been led by the feckless and week to our detriment!

What are you on about? You need to look up the meaning of champagne socialist as Labour are nothing of the sort since Corbyn departed. They are slightly better conservatives at this point.

Think you need to reevaluate your political compass ie tory = right and Labour = center right and kier does not know where he stands. As to Jeremy Corbyn he at least stood for what he believed. And SIR KIER STARMER has no idea

[DirtyHarry]

Is there a live event next week to reveal the results of the vote ??

They could have a couple of very buxom strippers announcing the result, and I couldn't give more of a toss, even if I tried.

Well, probably be worried that one of the strippers might catch a cold........

Why even post on this forum if you don’t care? What a waste of time.

I am going to comment on any topic I care to, whether you like it, or not.

[sweepster70]

An acceptable result would to be in a better financial position than we were a year ago without lesser terms and conditions, if there is a no vote then it’s up to the union to to knuckle down and get something considerably better than what’s on offer. It’s not up-to the workforce to negotiate a deal it’s up to the our representatives to figure this out as this what they are paid to do. However what’s on the table is totally unacceptable and just a way of signing a your conditions for a paltry sum but some thicko’s can’t see it.

The problems with that position are many and varied but the most important one is this line.

it’s up to the union to to knuckle down and get something considerably better than what’s on offer

It's not like digging a hole and you suddenly realise it's not deep enough so you just need to go back and dig a little deeper.

The important question is why would Royal Mail offer a considerately better something, well they're obviously not going to give that away so they would have to be pressured into it.

That leads to the next question, just what pressure could be applied to Royal Mail to force them into moving so far from the position they are in now?

In reality that means only one thing, industrial action. It is the only weapon any union has in its arsenal.

So your entire acceptable result is based on one thing, that it isn't up to the union to get us a better deal, it's up to us.

So that's where the huge risk in this path becomes clear because I don't think there's anyone capable of uniting the membership enough for further industrial action. We can see that in the language used between what has become two distinct camps.

If a no vote were to happen and the union was forced and brave/stupid enough to call industrial action to force further concessions it would likely be poorly supported and further action would be even more poorly supported until a full collapse and capitulation was inevitable and this would leave the union sitting across the table negotiating from a position much weaker than the one that produced this agreement.

What kind of agreement would be forced on us from that weak position I can only guess but it wouldn't be a pretty scenario.

If understanding that fatal flaw in your theory makes me a thicko so be it.

I have voted yes, but if it is a no vote I would support that as if I'd voted no. As a Union we have to support the majority decision, even if we don't agree with it.
On another post, Jeremy Corbin was true Labour but was hounded out by the right wing press, and people believing what they print. We are so easily led these days and have been brainwashed by the media, including social media.

[LouBarlow]

The fact of the matter is we have been played by RM and now the CWU and OFCOM. Thing is in five years time all this will be forgotten it is not just the deception or giving the money we earned to feckless f***s in RM at the expense of the true workers. Thing is this is not just RM but the whole nation and every industry the Labour party is filled again with champagne socialism and Sir kir is a dick never in all my time has this country been led by the feckless and week to our detriment!

What are you on about? You need to look up the meaning of champagne socialist as Labour are nothing of the sort since Corbyn departed. They are slightly better conservatives at this point.

Think you need to reevaluate your political compass ie tory = right and Labour = center right and kier does not know where he stands. As to Jeremy Corbyn he at least stood for what he believed. And SIR KIER STARMER has no idea

I don’t need to reevaluate anything. Labour have nothing, nothing, to offer in their manifesto that would improve this country, unlike Corbyn. Under his leadership they were a true left wing organisation, now Starmer is just another middling Blair-esque wannabe.

[Tman]

Really?
A Labour party (under Corbyn) with party membership boosted by students and metro intellectuals, but ditched by traditional Labour party voters in their many thousands when it came to election time?
A party led by such heady intellectuals as MacDonnell, Abbott and the vile Thornberry?
A party where anti-Semites (at all levels) weren't castigated, exposed or expelled?
A bunch so truly inept and awful that they made the idiot Johnson look a viable alternative?
"Left Wing"? No, just useless under the old snaggle-toothed dribbler Corbyn, although to be fair they're still useless under the waxwork dummy Starmer.

[SMS1969]

Really?
A Labour party (under Corbyn) with party membership boosted by students and metro intellectuals, but ditched by traditional Labour party voters in their many thousands when it came to election time?
A party led by such heady intellectuals as MacDonnell, Abbott and the vile Thornberry?
A party where anti-Semites (at all levels) weren't castigated, exposed or expelled?
A bunch so truly inept and awful that they made the idiot Johnson look a viable alternative?
"Left Wing"? No, just useless under the old snaggle-toothed dribbler Corbyn, although to be fair they're still useless under the waxwork dummy Starmer.

[RTP]

The fact of the matter is we have been played by RM and now the CWU and OFCOM. Thing is in five years time all this will be forgotten it is not just the deception or giving the money we earned to feckless f***s in RM at the expense of the true workers. Thing is this is not just RM but the whole nation and every industry the Labour party is filled again with champagne socialism and Sir kir is a dick never in all my time has this country been led by the feckless and week to our detriment!

What are you on about? You need to look up the meaning of champagne socialist as Labour are nothing of the sort since Corbyn departed. They are slightly better conservatives at this point.

Think you need to reevaluate your political compass ie tory = right and Labour = center right and kier does not know where he stands. As to Jeremy Corbyn he at least stood for what he believed. And SIR KIER STARMER has no idea

I don’t need to reevaluate anything. Labour have nothing, nothing, to offer in their manifesto that would improve this country, unlike Corbyn. Under his leadership they were a true left wing organisation, now Starmer is just another middling Blair-esque wannabe.

No wonder you are always on here if you have that mindset Lou. No Labour government since Atlee has been truely left wing and never again will there be another. That was a unique moment in time after two world wars. Labour cannot win an election being hard left anymore. Times have changed, but Labour have always and always will do more for the working class. Even Tony Blairs government proved that fact.

[LouBarlow]

Really?
A Labour party (under Corbyn) with party membership boosted by students and metro intellectuals, but ditched by traditional Labour party voters in their many thousands when it came to election time?
A party led by such heady intellectuals as MacDonnell, Abbott and the vile Thornberry?
A party where anti-Semites (at all levels) weren't castigated, exposed or expelled?
A bunch so truly inept and awful that they made the idiot Johnson look a viable alternative?
"Left Wing"? No, just useless under the old snaggle-toothed dribbler Corbyn, although to be fair they're still useless under the waxwork dummy Starmer.

Behave. The last election was lost to Brexit. It had nothing to do with ‘traditional labour voters’ not turning up. And look how that turned out.

[Tman]

That was the weak excuse as used by Corbynites.
The truly and utterly crapness of our Dear Leader didn't cost us the election, it was Brexit.
Yeah right.

Incidentally Corbyn was always a big critic of the EEC/EU for decades, even back when it was still seen as a worthwhile undertaking by the general populace, then when someone pointed out that a Remainer stance could boost his voting share he was suddenly pro-EU.
So much for the much vaunted "Man of Principle".
I never said traditional labour voters didn't turn up. Clearly they did, and they voted for the Tory candidate even in constituencies that had never before returned a Tory MP.
Yep, he was good, that Corbyn.

[richietns]

Its cringeworthy blaming everything on Brexit especially while the whole EU is crashing.

[Krafty]

Really?
A Labour party (under Corbyn) with party membership boosted by students and metro intellectuals, but ditched by traditional Labour party voters in their many thousands when it came to election time?
A party led by such heady intellectuals as MacDonnell, Abbott and the vile Thornberry?
A party where anti-Semites (at all levels) weren't castigated, exposed or expelled?
A bunch so truly inept and awful that they made the idiot Johnson look a viable alternative?
"Left Wing"? No, just useless under the old snaggle-toothed dribbler Corbyn, although to be fair they're still useless under the waxwork dummy Starmer.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Bravo
The Concervatives have not been great, but god help us when Labour get in.