Have to vote No

[Acca Dacca]

Is there any point in us ever having a ballot to decide on an agreement ever again?

Sure according to a few posters on here ( who have done more posting in the past few weeks on here than they ever did during the dispute ) voting NO is futile and Royal Mail will just bring in what they want anyway.

What will it be next time? First few days of FIRST sick are unpaid? Paid breaks?

Guess there will be no point in voting NO next time too. Might as well just scrap us having a say altogether.

''but the CWU are recommending we vote YES''

Yeah, just like every time there is a ballot to vote on a potential agreement

Why waste time next time around if the attitude is ''RM will just bring in what they want regardless''

Will those who keep banging on that it doesnt matter if its a YES or NO vote please tell us what the point in the ballot is then?

[LouBarlow]

Is there any point in us ever having a ballot to decide on an agreement ever again?

Sure according to a few posters on here ( who have done more posting in the past few weeks on here than they ever did during the dispute ) voting NO is futile and Royal Mail will just bring in what they want anyway.

What will it be next time? First few days of FIRST sick are unpaid? Paid breaks?

Guess there will be no point in voting NO next time too. Might as well just scrap us having a say altogether.

''but the CWU are recommending we vote YES''

Yeah, just like every time there is a ballot to vote on a potential agreement

Why waste time next time holding one next time around if the attitude is ''RM will just bring in what they want regardless''

Will those who keep banging on that it doesnt matter if its a YES or NO vote please tell us what the point in the ballot is then?

I’m not sure what you are saying here. Are you admitting that voting yes is the best option? Finally!

[Acca Dacca]

Is there any point in us ever having a ballot to decide on an agreement ever again?

Sure according to a few posters on here ( who have done more posting in the past few weeks on here than they ever did during the dispute ) voting NO is futile and Royal Mail will just bring in what they want anyway.

What will it be next time? First few days of FIRST sick are unpaid? Paid breaks?

Guess there will be no point in voting NO next time too. Might as well just scrap us having a say altogether.

''but the CWU are recommending we vote YES''

Yeah, just like every time there is a ballot to vote on a potential agreement

Why waste time next time holding one next time around if the attitude is ''RM will just bring in what they want regardless''

Will those who keep banging on that it doesnt matter if its a YES or NO vote please tell us what the point in the ballot is then?

I’m not sure what you are saying here. Are you admitting that voting yes is the best option? Finally!

No, im asking people like you what the point in holding a ballot on an agreement ever again is if you believe that RM will just bring in the changes they want regardless.

''You can have any color you like as long as its black''

[daveyeff]

Is there any point in us ever having a ballot to decide on an agreement ever again?

Sure according to a few posters on here ( who have done more posting in the past few weeks on here than they ever did during the dispute ) voting NO is futile and Royal Mail will just bring in what they want anyway.

What will it be next time? First few days of FIRST sick are unpaid? Paid breaks?

Guess there will be no point in voting NO next time too. Might as well just scrap us having a say altogether.

''but the CWU are recommending we vote YES''

Yeah, just like every time there is a ballot to vote on a potential agreement

Why waste time next time holding one next time around if the attitude is ''RM will just bring in what they want regardless''

Will those who keep banging on that it doesnt matter if its a YES or NO vote please tell us what the point in the ballot is then?

I’m not sure what you are saying here. Are you admitting that voting yes is the best option? Finally!

No, im asking people like you what the point in holding a ballot on an agreement ever again is if you believe that RM will just bring in the changes they want regardless.

''You can have any color you like as long as its black''

And vote for all out strike but only 2 days at a time

[LouBarlow]

Is there any point in us ever having a ballot to decide on an agreement ever again?

Sure according to a few posters on here ( who have done more posting in the past few weeks on here than they ever did during the dispute ) voting NO is futile and Royal Mail will just bring in what they want anyway.

What will it be next time? First few days of FIRST sick are unpaid? Paid breaks?

Guess there will be no point in voting NO next time too. Might as well just scrap us having a say altogether.

''but the CWU are recommending we vote YES''

Yeah, just like every time there is a ballot to vote on a potential agreement

Why waste time next time holding one next time around if the attitude is ''RM will just bring in what they want regardless''

Will those who keep banging on that it doesnt matter if its a YES or NO vote please tell us what the point in the ballot is then?

I’m not sure what you are saying here. Are you admitting that voting yes is the best option? Finally!

No, im asking people like you what the point in holding a ballot on an agreement ever again is if you believe that RM will just bring in the changes they want regardless.

You’ve got me wrong. I’m saying a no vote will ensure change. A yes vote will ensure a binding legal agreement and a pay rise and lump sum. There will be change but change dictated by the agreement and with union involvement going forward. A no result will mean all bets are off. And by bets I mean the house will always win. And by house I mean RM.

Hope this clears it up? Also you might find that people are more vocal right now as the future of their job is at stake. Check the join date of these posters and many have been around for some time.

[Acca Dacca]

I havent got you wrong.

You are saying what I said you said. That a NO vote wont stave off the changes, they will be brought in anyway so there is no point in voting NO.

If you believe that, then that will still be the case next agreement and the next agreement after that ( if we get that far ) so what exactly is the point in us having a ballot again? May as well just let the union hierarchy decide and stop the pretence of letting us have our say.

because after all, dont dare vote NO.

You can say that voting NO is pointless, but then you'd have to say the whole exercise of balloting the membership is therefore pointless too

[Woody Guthrie]

Will those who keep banging on that it doesnt matter if its a YES or NO vote please tell us what the point in the ballot is then?

I've already been through this but I'll do it again.

It is a legitimate choice but only if you are voting for the correct reason, if you think it's the best deal we can get vote yes, if you think we can get a better agreement vote no. That's all an agreement ratification should be about.

That is the point of the ballot.
It's not an excuse to stop things changing.
It's not an excuse to vent anger.
It's not an excuse to grab the moral high ground.
It's not an excuse to stick two fingers up at the CWU or Royal Mail or as the fruitcakes from the fourth/fifth international would have us believe an excuse to make a political statement and start a revolution.

It's not even about whether it's a good or bad deal, it's just about whether it's the best deal available under the circumstances bearing in mind that achieving a better deal will obviously require fresh sacrifices and challenges and comes with no guarantee of success.

I happen to believe with a heavy heart that unfortunately it is the best overall solution to a difficult situation but my opinion on what may or may not occur after the vote is exactly that, an opinion. Just like all of the other opinions on here.

I like to think it's a little more grounded in reality than some, I've been around a long time and seen a fair bit in that time and I'm basing it on what I've seen both from the union and from Royal Mail in the last 12 months sadly not some nostalgic view of what used to be 30 years ago when the union could still bring Royal Mail to its knees but it's ultimately up to anyone reading how much weight they give to what I post.

[scotchy1962]

Will those who keep banging on that it doesnt matter if its a YES or NO vote please tell us what the point in the ballot is then?

I've already been through this but I'll do it again.

It is a legitimate choice but only if you are voting for the correct reason, if you think it's the best deal we can get vote yes, if you think we can get a better agreement vote no. That's all an agreement ratification should be about.

That is the point of the ballot.
It's not an excuse to stop things changing.
It's not an excuse to vent anger.
It's not an excuse to grab the moral high ground.
It's not an excuse to stick two fingers up at the CWU or Royal Mail or as the fruitcakes from the fourth/fifth international would have us believe an excuse to make a political statement and start a revolution.

It's not even about whether it's a good or bad deal, it's just about whether it's the best deal available under the circumstances bearing in mind that achieving a better deal will obviously require fresh sacrifices and challenges and comes with no guarantee of success.

I happen to believe with a heavy heart that unfortunately it is the best overall solution to a difficult situation but my opinion on what may or may not occur after the vote is exactly that, an opinion. Just like all of the other opinions on here.

I like to think it's a little more grounded in reality than some, I've been around a long time and seen a fair bit in that time and I'm basing it on what I've seen both from the union and from Royal Mail in the last 12 months sadly not some nostalgic view of what used to be 30 years ago when the union could still bring Royal Mail to its knees but it's ultimately up to anyone reading how much weight they give to what I post.

Still don't get it Woody, all of what you say is perhaps in your eyes viable reasons. But there lies the problem. its your view not anyone else's.
You can spout all of this justification for how and why you should/shouldn't vote but none of it matters.
I know sometimes you think you are the only adult on here and some need their collective heads banging together, unfortunately that's people for you.
I personally believe you should vote on exactly what is put in front of you.
Nothing else!!
Not because there's no alternative or the best we can get.
Not because they will just do what they want by EA and we are all scared.
Not to vent anger or any of the reasons stated.
Some of us have been around just as long if not longer and are as grounded as the next person but still have a different view.
Don't think i don't get where you are coming from Woody as i do, its just i react differently to it.
I know we as a union are fecked, we as a workforce are fecked and i know that RM as a company that we all knew is going to die a painful death.
I can't vote for any of that but won't criticise anyone who does.
There is no right reason to vote either way in my eyes.
But again just my opinion.

[LouBarlow]

I havent got you wrong.

You are saying what I said you said. That a NO vote wont stave off the changes, they will be brought in anyway so there is no point in voting NO.

If you believe that, then that will still be the case next agreement and the next agreement after that ( if we get that far ) so what exactly is the point in us having a ballot again? May as well just let the union hierarchy decide and stop the pretence of letting us have our say.

because after all, dont dare vote NO.

You can say that voting NO is pointless, but then you'd have to say the whole exercise of balloting the membership is therefore pointless too

Why are you worrying about future agreements? This agreement has been designed in an attempt to turn around the financial calamity that RM finds itself in. If after this agreement comes in, a few years down the line, more changes are needed to ensure survival, and indeed our jobs, then so be it, but lets take one job-defining agreement at a time shall we?

Voting no is pointless, as, at the very least, it will lead to changes coming in, without union collaboration, no pay-rise or financial gain, and at worse will lead to the loss of our jobs. This isn’t me plucking this stuff out of my arse, this is what the adults in the room are telling you, be it RM, the CWU and the PEC. Choosing to believe them or not is of course your prerogative, but at least explain your thinking in your assumption that they are all fibbing to you.

I get people being angry, but I don’t understand the thinking behind someone risking their job by venting this anger with their vote. Sorry.

[Nickvilla20]

Spot on Woody.

The problem is for us is Royal Mail changed the rules of the game. Before we had them as without us they couldn’t provide a high quality of service and now they don’t care about that. Their main focus is tracked and specials and anyone off the street can go deliver those with an hours training.

Just look how any privatised industry has gone they’ve all followed the same path even with strong unions. BA and BT are a couple of examples. I actually admire people wanting to fight on the ones who actually want to provide a first class service but that has been slowly watered down since privatisation and the flood gates opened due to covid and they will never be closed again.

I voted yes and not because I like the deal but I think as a workforce we need some stability. The union knew a while back later starts and longer deliveries were coming automation and less letters were always going to do that. At least that has been mitigated somewhat with a shorter working week.

[Woody Guthrie]

Still don't get it Woody...

The fact that you don't get it is irrelevant.
I'm not posting to make you get it.

You can vote no because you saw Simon Thomson's face in your tea leaves if you want, at the end of the day you only have to justify that to yourself.

I personally believe you should vote on exactly what is put in front of you.

Personally when I'm making any big decision I like to look at the alternative..
In this case it looks much worse to me.

That's not so difficult to get.

If you had said you had also looked at the alternative and decided it could bring a better deal I would say fair enough and I would have some respect for that position even if I didn't agree with it but reading your post you don't appear to give a flying f**k about the future.

I'm not surprised, according to your username and posting history you're in your 60s and probably already on a countdown and can afford to watch the place burn.

Not so cool if you're in your 30s with a family to feed though..

[richietns]

Personally I think that's Bullshit The union got us all fired up and thousands were up for it....'I'm with my union' etc, etc, they told us if we accepted RMs proposals then we were endorsing later starts,,,,,,then we had 'win the ballot, win the dispute' we were out for 18 days solid in 96, I and many others were paying mortgages....but we stayed out. This time, Terry's out the picture and the leadership sh***s its pants. They were saying RM wanted this and that but we got this we got that.....we got f**k all. Truth is RM knew they wouldn't get 3 hours later starts. But they knew they would get it knocked down which was their real goal, next time they will come for 1hour 15 mins and expect to get knocked down to 45mins. Union will claim that's a victory as well. Then they will come for more sick pay terms and further attack the attendance procedure. As for them being skint,,,,don't even go there.

The union genuinely thought they could win at the start but the further it went on it became clear RM were crashing the business on purpose,why do some people think just because you pay subs they should automatically win 100% of the disputes.

[guardianangel]

Personally if the membership vote yes we have lost ,Royal Mail will know we are weak and in the next few years they will steam roller through whatever they like with little or no response from the CWU,next week is our d-day,all i know is i wont be staying around to be finished off next year,its all down to the membership now ,good luck and hope to see you on the other side some day soon.

[Nickvilla20]

Personally if the membership vote yes we have lost ,Royal Mail will know we are weak and in the next few years they will steam roller through whatever they like with little or no response from the CWU,next week is our d-day,all i know is i wont be staying around to be finished off next year,its all down to the membership now ,good luck and hope to see you on the other side some day soon.

Surely if you’re going to leave soon you would take the money and run?

The job has changed as has society in general we aren’t the essential service we once was we are now just a company in the private sector who wants to make as much money as possible.

Unions are weaker generally these days and the only unions who have strength are ones who represent the public sector. Then again that’s not entirely true when you look at the rail and teachers disputes. Sadly unions aren’t the force they used to be.

[Foxel]

This miss-belief about a yes vote being the secure option is laughable. The record already shows that these people are not fit to run the company, have stripped it of cash and brought it to its knees. It is the deludedness of going back to an abusive boyfriend, thinking this time it will be different. It is easier to tell ourselves that story than to believe in our own worth.