Have to vote No

[LouBarlow]

Just search Martin’s posts it is in one of his more recent ones before he was hounded off the boards.

A union isn’t going to step in the way of change that saves member’s jobs in the event of a no vote. Think about it.

[daveyeff]

The changes they want to make wouldnt need to be unagreed changes if we vote yes to them is his point.They would then be agreed changes. Its easier to bring in agreed changes than unagreed changes. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

That isn't his point and no I'm not being deliberately obtuse but thanks for the insult.
You just didn't bother reading his original point that I replied to.

they definitely want a yes. so when they come back with more of the same, they can turn round and say ''well you's voted for it''.

If they come back for more it will by definition be unagreed.
That's kind of what more means isn't it?

Sorry i meant to say when they come back for more of the same they will say "well yous voted for it last time".....but as ive also said...a yes vote makes it easier for them....now can we crack on.

[scotchy1962]

Just search Martin’s posts it is in one of his more recent ones before he was hounded off the boards.

A union isn’t going to step in the way of change that saves member’s jobs in the event of a no vote. Think about it.

A quick scan found a discussion by Martin on collective bargaining and at no stage does he say about the union stepping in and overriding a democratic vote.
This is obviously what you hope would happen in the event of a NO vote, in reality the union would be dead in the water if they went against the membership.

[timbo1234]

All of these opinions on here about whether RM can do this, can't do that, need an agreement, don't need an agreement, executive action etc etc are exactly that - opinions. RM will have a plan for whatever the ballot result. RM will also have had their top legal team crawling all over what they can and can't do. That is a certainty. Anyone expecting RM to renegotiate the proposal is in denial. RM have no time to renegotiate because it has outlined it's recovery to shareholders and the markets. I don't like or think the deal or think it is good or fair. But good or fair haven't been part of this dispute.

[daveyeff]

A lad told me this morning, the cwu have stated on twitter..(i dont know cos im not on twitter) that if its a no vote then they will have to get back to RM and re-negotiate.....could be though, they know it will be a yes and are appeasing the no voters with a moot statement.

[Burghboy]

A lad told me this morning, the cwu have stated on twitter..(i dont know cos im not on twitter) that if its a no vote then they will have to get back to RM and re-negotiate.....could be though, they know it will be a yes and are appeasing the no voters with a moot statement.

Ward stated this at the reps meeting in Glasgow, the only 2 options they have is renegotiate or more IA

[L8Hatter]

Weighing it all up, you have to be crazy to vote no....

Voting no =

- The unknown.
- Having to strike and lose more money.
- We might end up with a crapper deal down the line.
- Risk of recession looming, they might not offer the same pay rise again.
- Damages the company more = more chance of less pay being offered.
- Mortgages and rental costs going through the roof, surely most people need the pay rise now and not risk a worse deal coming later.

This change that is happening is inevitable whether you vote yes or no.

There is no chance of us getting an improved offer by voting no, and would cause so much faffing about for many more months.

Vote YES.

Agree with all of that and there's the psychological side that a long dispute like this brings out in people. Voting with emotion (anger/frustration) rather than rationality. The illusion of control. It was nice when we could pretend to ourselves the strikes were effective leading up to Christmas. But they didn't really have much impact, and voting no now won't make any difference on the long-term outcome, except probably making it worse.

Then of course, there's the difference between those with 80s/90s mortgages, so don't really care about the lump sum/pay rise, and those to whom it would be hugely beneficial during this disastrous Tory administration.

[enskied]

I have given plenty of facts on this forum regarding the financial position of the company but it's up to people if they clearly choose to see otherwise.

There have been so many of them that they have passed me by. Do me a favour and just lay out a few for us here. It would be good if you could forward them to the union negotiators, so as when the vote comes back a no, they can get back around the table with this new weapon of proven financial opulence, and use it to thrash out a better deal.

This is what Keith Williams said to in the shareholder meeting after the Union's agreement.

* retained earnings of £3.8 billion
* access to liquidity of £1.7 billion
* Group balance sheets remain strong (despite the impairment of assets)


There is also a lot riding on the changes with a plan that shows a return to profitability in 2023-24 and for both companies in profit in 2024-25

The important word there is ‘group’ we are haemorrhaging money but other group members are taking up the slack. We have just had our latest revision kick in. Over 800 calls on every town duty and we are still making time because the traffic is ridiculously light.

No door to doors for the last two weeks. Costs rising in all respects. If you think we are a profitable company right now I don’t think we will ever agree. Things have to change and they will with or without this agreement.

How are you still making time scan in an out not in your office yet.

We are made to stay till our finish time, then clock out. Our week is arranged so as Wednesday and Thursday are longer days, and last week we must have made a good 40 minutes. We start on time and have our breaks too. I have never seen the job so dead in all my time working here. No bulk postings for ages. Door to doors have dried up completely. I’m amazed that others insist they are as busy as ever.

That is not the reality for us.
Our office hasn't cleared since before the pandemic. Bulk posting galore, rail track, dear neighbour four lots of door to doors yet again.

You live in an iydil Lou.
No point pushing a vote either way now.

Hope that your happy land continues.

[enskied]

Where is it Lou . Trumpton and the 1950's ?

Your office needs looking at.

[postieblueshirt]

Yes dear neighbour,railway neighbour,national trust,conde nast,gardeners world, Scottish heritage,subway,dominos pizza lover,go outdoors, Toolstation,Screwfix,co-op divi, Morrison's, Waitrose,the Beano FFS,radio times,to name but a tiny few of what arrives day in day out.Then of course parcels Amazon parcel force Nike Adidas shein ASOS eBay Screwfix Toolstation etc etc etc.And to top it off this week the best of the best the 2023/24 phone book for EVERY house and business.

[LouBarlow]

Where is it Lou . Trumpton and the 1950's ?

Your office needs looking at.

It took you an hour to come up with that? I mean, you could have edited it into your previous post, but I guess you were proud of it and felt it deserved its own.

Our office is a few weeks into our revision, and despite being short-staffed we are still completing every day. Sounds like a more pleasant office to work in than some on here, which I guess is why I am more keen to vote for a deal that safeguards my job.

[thefox]

Where is it Lou . Trumpton and the 1950's ?

Your office needs looking at.

It took you an hour to come up with that? I mean, you could have edited it into your previous post, but I guess you were proud of it and felt it deserved its own.

Our office is a few weeks into our revision, and despite being short-staffed we are still completing every day. Sounds like a more pleasant office to work in than some on here, which I guess is why I am more keen to vote for a deal that safeguards my job.

Short staffed and you still got extra on you, sounds
like a good office you are in lou,is your office clearing in their time or extending just out of interest?

[LouBarlow]

Where is it Lou . Trumpton and the 1950's ?

Your office needs looking at.

It took you an hour to come up with that? I mean, you could have edited it into your previous post, but I guess you were proud of it and felt it deserved its own.

Our office is a few weeks into our revision, and despite being short-staffed we are still completing every day. Sounds like a more pleasant office to work in than some on here, which I guess is why I am more keen to vote for a deal that safeguards my job.

Short staffed and you still got extra on you, sounds
like a good office you are in lou,is your office clearing in their time or extending just out of interest?

It is reliant on people working days off currently, but we have a number of new starters in right now, so will hopefully be better placed to run without needing OT. That is of course if they stay on, and with the crappy new contracts, less likely than it was previously.

[thefox]

Where is it Lou . Trumpton and the 1950's ?

Your office needs looking at.

It took you an hour to come up with that? I mean, you could have edited it into your previous post, but I guess you were proud of it and felt it deserved its own.

Our office is a few weeks into our revision, and despite being short-staffed we are still completing every day. Sounds like a more pleasant office to work in than some on here, which I guess is why I am more keen to vote for a deal that safeguards my job.

Short staffed and you still got extra on you, sounds
like a good office you are in lou,is your office clearing in their time or extending just out of interest?

It is reliant on people working days off currently, but we have a number of new starters in right now, so will hopefully be better placed to run without needing OT. That is of course if they stay on, and with the crappy new contracts, less likely than it was previously.

Yeah sounds a bit like ours we have agency in ours at moment but a few have packed it in already,pretty reliant on people working their days off but we are still failing dutys on a daily basis in what is meant to be quiet period we are a few months into our revision,we don't have many extending right enough think people just can't wait to get out of the place at finish time lots of loops getting brought back.

[norris9]

Yeah sounds a bit like ours we have agency in ours at moment but a few have packed it in already,pretty reliant on people working their days off but we are still failing dutys on a daily basis in what is meant to be quiet period we are a few months into our revision,we don't have many extending right enough think people just can't wait to get out of the place at finish time lots of loops getting brought back.

Do you think that in an ideal world Royal Mail and management would like us all to complete daily, whether in time or not?

Do they not realise how exhausting walking 10 miles+ a day is. Pushing people to rush round or go over time in this type of work is ridiculous. We aren't olympians.