Have to vote No

[ANDREW CROCOMBE]

Going by Royal Mail's attitude and actions over the last few years, clearly showing what they want to change into, and to hell with the CWU and a majority of the older staff - would a Yes vote mean we could never complain again ? because we know anything could happen within the timeframe of the agreement. Just trying to find how everyone feels, take the money and stuff the rest seems popular.

[Woody Guthrie]

would a Yes vote mean we could never complain again ? because we know anything could happen within the timeframe of the agreement

It's really a moot point.
You can always complain.
It's whether they are prepared to listen that matters.

Our position can't be that we continue on indefinitely without an agreement, even those voting no have to believe that some kind of agreement has to be achieved so you're always going to be in that position where they could tear it up at any point.

[daveyeff]

how do you reckon?

You suggested they would come back for more.
More would suggest more davey.
More than what's in the agreement.
Therefore more than we voted for.
Therefore they can't really say we voted for it.

well if its a ''no'' its going to be crap for them cos the changes will have to come in by E/A. as i understand it they can't just do every thing they want, they need agreement. or it would already be in. but a yes will give them a green light to open their flood gates. they WILL come back for later starts on top of the 60/90 mins. they WILL come back for further attacks on the sick procedure, they WILL come back for more attacks on IHR/EVR. what are we going to do about it? vote to go on strike. no we didn't vote for more but it WILL end up that way.

[Boltonian-White]

If it’s a no vote we put up a stronger fight and use our strike mandate like the CWU was up for prior to them going into self preservation mode,remember the best and final offer was improved on,they’re was no more money in the pot but then the £900 carrot was dangled,Dave Ward and his team talked a good battle but when it came to the crunch they weren’t up for the fight and lay down and got their belly tickled by RM

How much stronger a fight do we have to put up, than striking at Christmas? How much support do you think you would have for an all out indefinite strike, and what do you think that would achieve, considering we are working for a company that is bleeding money? I’m honestly interested in how you would proceed at this point.

97 % voted to carry on the strike how much more support do you think is needed.

x7 posts in a row. Well done you win a cookie

Thankyou, maybe you finally got it,we win nothing on a yes.

All I got was you spamming the thread with your opinion. Repeating the same tired old shite. Desperate and boring.

[jahbalon]

how do you reckon?

You suggested they would come back for more.
More would suggest more davey.
More than what's in the agreement.
Therefore more than we voted for.
Therefore they can't really say we voted for it.

well if its a ''no'' its going to be crap for them cos the changes will have to come in by E/A. as i understand it they can't just do every thing they want, they need agreement. or it would already be in. but a yes will give them a green light to open their flood gates. they WILL come back for later starts on top of the 60/90 mins. they WILL come back for further attacks on the sick procedure, they WILL come back for more attacks on IHR/EVR. what are we going to do about it? vote to go on strike. no we didn't vote for more but it WILL end up that way.

You are failing to understand that the CWU and the Royal Mail have forged together New Memos of Agreement and Understanding, and that is how we have this attractive deal and massive lump sum of £1400 on the table for all 160,000 postal workers.

It is scaremongering of the highest order to suggest that Royal Mail will take advantage of a Yes vote, that is not how it works anymore.

The CWU and Royal Mail are now in total lockstep together to strive for a more profitable, agile and feasible business model going forward, which if successful, will bring many rewards and financial incentives for all postal workers and shareholders, and don't forget the majority of postal workers are also shareholders in their company, so it is in everybody's interest to vote a resounding and unequivocal YES to the Deal.

[Woody Guthrie]

how do you reckon?

You suggested they would come back for more.
More would suggest more davey.
More than what's in the agreement.
Therefore more than we voted for.
Therefore they can't really say we voted for it.

well if its a ''no'' its going to be crap for them cos the changes will have to come in by E/A. as i understand it they can't just do every thing they want, they need agreement. or it would already be in. but a yes will give them a green light to open their flood gates. they WILL come back for later starts on top of the 60/90 mins. they WILL come back for further attacks on the sick procedure, they WILL come back for more attacks on IHR/EVR. what are we going to do about it? vote to go on strike. no we didn't vote for more but it WILL end up that way.

You're arguing against yourself davey.
You're saying they need an agreement to change.
Then you're saying that they can bring in changes that aren't in the agreement without another agreement.
It can't be both mate.

[scotchy1962]

how do you reckon?

You suggested they would come back for more.
More would suggest more davey.
More than what's in the agreement.
Therefore more than we voted for.
Therefore they can't really say we voted for it.

well if its a ''no'' its going to be crap for them cos the changes will have to come in by E/A. as i understand it they can't just do every thing they want, they need agreement. or it would already be in. but a yes will give them a green light to open their flood gates. they WILL come back for later starts on top of the 60/90 mins. they WILL come back for further attacks on the sick procedure, they WILL come back for more attacks on IHR/EVR. what are we going to do about it? vote to go on strike. no we didn't vote for more but it WILL end up that way.

You are failing to understand that the CWU and the Royal Mail have forged together New Memos of Agreement and Understanding, and that is how we have this attractive deal and massive lump sum of £1400 on the table for all 160,000 postal workers.

It is scaremongering of the highest order to suggest that Royal Mail will take advantage of a Yes vote, that is not how it works anymore.

The CWU and Royal Mail are now in total lockstep together to strive for a more profitable, agile and feasible business model going forward, which if successful, will bring many rewards and financial incentives for all postal workers and shareholders, and don't forget the majority of postal workers are also shareholders in their company, so it is in everybody's interest to vote a resounding and unequivocal YES to the Deal.

Interesting read, i am trying to decide that when you read it through and work through the many "buzz" words does any of it actually make sense, i am still undecided.
I take it what you are saying is RM and the union have reached a agreement which they can now put to the workforce to vote on.
If that is what you meant i am pretty sure most of us already know, but thanks for the heads up.
I think your idea of a massive lump sum and attractive deal differ from my view so we will agree to disagree.
So i have voted a big fat NO.

[daveyeff]

how do you reckon?

You suggested they would come back for more.
More would suggest more davey.
More than what's in the agreement.
Therefore more than we voted for.
Therefore they can't really say we voted for it.

well if its a ''no'' its going to be crap for them cos the changes will have to come in by E/A. as i understand it they can't just do every thing they want, they need agreement. or it would already be in. but a yes will give them a green light to open their flood gates. they WILL come back for later starts on top of the 60/90 mins. they WILL come back for further attacks on the sick procedure, they WILL come back for more attacks on IHR/EVR. what are we going to do about it? vote to go on strike. no we didn't vote for more but it WILL end up that way.

You're arguing against yourself davey.
You're saying they need an agreement to change.
Then you're saying that they can bring in changes that aren't in the agreement without another agreement.
It can't be both mate.

its been mentioned on here they cant bring in everything unless its agreed. but they have already done so with the revisions. if a yes vote wins they will come back for more of the same knowing how weak the CWU have been on this fiasco. but some are also saying on here if a no vote wins the changes will come in anyway? a yes vote makes it easier for them.

[daveyeff]

how do you reckon?

You suggested they would come back for more.
More would suggest more davey.
More than what's in the agreement.
Therefore more than we voted for.
Therefore they can't really say we voted for it.

well if its a ''no'' its going to be crap for them cos the changes will have to come in by E/A. as i understand it they can't just do every thing they want, they need agreement. or it would already be in. but a yes will give them a green light to open their flood gates. they WILL come back for later starts on top of the 60/90 mins. they WILL come back for further attacks on the sick procedure, they WILL come back for more attacks on IHR/EVR. what are we going to do about it? vote to go on strike. no we didn't vote for more but it WILL end up that way.

You are failing to understand that the CWU and the Royal Mail have forged together New Memos of Agreement and Understanding, and that is how we have this attractive deal and massive lump sum of £1400 on the table for all 160,000 postal workers.

It is scaremongering of the highest order to suggest that Royal Mail will take advantage of a Yes vote, that is not how it works anymore.

The CWU and Royal Mail are now in total lockstep together to strive for a more profitable, agile and feasible business model going forward, which if successful, will bring many rewards and financial incentives for all postal workers and shareholders, and don't forget the majority of postal workers are also shareholders in their company, so it is in everybody's interest to vote a resounding and unequivocal YES to the Deal.

attractive deal.....forged agreement and understanding....total lockstep together.....sarcasm at its best surely?

[postslippete]

You are failing to understand that the CWU and the Royal Mail have forged together New Memos of Agreement and Understanding, and that is how we have this attractive deal and massive lump sum of £1400 on the table for all 160,000 postal workers.

It is scaremongering of the highest order to suggest that Royal Mail will take advantage of a Yes vote, that is not how it works anymore.

The CWU and Royal Mail are now in total lockstep together to strive for a more profitable, agile and feasible business model going forward, which if successful, will bring many rewards and financial incentives for all postal workers and shareholders, and don't forget the majority of postal workers are also shareholders in their company, so it is in everybody's interest to vote a resounding and unequivocal YES to the Deal.

We had a 2% imposed pay rise last year. The agreement represents a 6% pay rise in 2023-24 (with the lump sums) and a further 2% pay rise in 2024-25; so over the 3 years we would have a 10% pay rise. For 2022-23 CPI inflation was 10% and RPI inflation 12.8%, so over the course of this agreement we will likely be looking at roughly a 10-15% pay cut in real terms.

As for the profit share scheme, it's the first 20% of operating profit distributed as a one-off payment. Royal Mail do not expect significant profit by 2024-25 and given the size of its workforce, every million in operating profit would only get a worker about £8 anyway. After tax and pro rata for part-timers.

[Woody Guthrie]

a yes vote makes it easier for them

That makes no sense.
Changes are either agreed or unagreed.
If they're unagreed they're outside any agreement, the clue is in the name.

Personally I doubt voting either way will make much difference as far as stopping them is concerned if they decide to go down that route but I do think that voting no is more likely to push them into doing it.

[claystones]

The cwu have said on there facebook page today if theres a no vote they would have to enter talks with royal mail again not expecting anything but who knows lets vote no and find out

[Acca Dacca]

a yes vote makes it easier for them

That makes no sense.
Changes are either agreed or unagreed.
If they're unagreed they're outside any agreement, the clue is in the name.

Personally I doubt voting either way will make much difference as far as stopping them is concerned if they decide to go down that route but I do think that voting no is more likely to push them into doing it.

Royal Mail want the changes.
No agreement makes it more difficult for them to bring in those changes.
An agreement makes it easy for the changes to be brought in....because its been agreed.

How does that not make sense?

[dazzler123]

The cwu have said on there facebook page today if theres a no vote they would have to enter talks with royal mail again not expecting anything but who knows lets vote no and find out

Months ago they said there is 'nothing more to give' then suddenly when they sensed the mood its raining tenners with an extra £900 falling from the sky. They can go frig themselves. If im losing my T/Cs they can wrestle them off me, not a chance im happily handing them over to this shower

[Woody Guthrie]

a yes vote makes it easier for them

That makes no sense.
Changes are either agreed or unagreed.
If they're unagreed they're outside any agreement, the clue is in the name.

Personally I doubt voting either way will make much difference as far as stopping them is concerned if they decide to go down that route but I do think that voting no is more likely to push them into doing it.

Royal Mail want the changes.
No agreement makes it more difficult for them to bring in those changes.
An agreement makes it easy for the changes to be brought in....because its been agreed.

How does that not make sense?

Because he's talking about unagreed changes outside this agreement.