Voting when RM are breaking agreement already

[Posthem]

Hey all, our area are going through a no "ghost" overtime rule being introduced which is fair enough, but also that no agreements on overtime and that you can only book what you work according to SISO, so if you do ½ a walk and takes you 1½ he's (hypothetically speaking) that's all you get, but according to agreement which states;

4.Opportunities to streamline pay administration
A joint trial will be initiated to evaluate how the attendance time data arising from the
deployment of Scan in Scan Out technology could support a streamlined feed of attendance
data to payroll to simplify and reduce the amount of back-office activity involved in pay
administration.
Any changes will only be via local management intervention and there will be no auto
deduction of contractual pay, allowances, Scheduled Attendance, overtime (e.g., where a
(verbal) contract for overtime pay has been agreed with the manager prior to commencement).

According to that, agreed overtime can be made, is this RM going against the agreement before we even vote on it ?

[adamanti]

RM ripped up all agreement's, nothing is as it was. Personally as this is the same in our area I enjoying the fallout. People telling them to stuff it, dozens of walk's not going out. Yes it means double mail but hey we just brought back what we couldn't do and walked out bang on time.

[yellowbelly]

Hey all, our area are going through a no "ghost" overtime rule being introduced which is fair enough, but also that no agreements on overtime and that you can only book what you work according to SISO, so if you do ½ a walk and takes you 1½ he's (hypothetically speaking) that's all you get, but according to agreement which states;

4.Opportunities to streamline pay administration
A joint trial will be initiated to evaluate how the attendance time data arising from the
deployment of Scan in Scan Out technology could support a streamlined feed of attendance
data to payroll to simplify and reduce the amount of back-office activity involved in pay
administration.
Any changes will only be via local management intervention and there will be no auto
deduction of contractual pay, allowances, Scheduled Attendance, overtime (e.g., where a
(verbal) contract for overtime pay has been agreed with the manager prior to commencement).

According to that, agreed overtime can be made, is this RM going against the agreement before we even vote on it ?

IMHO the 'verbal agreement' they're referring to is you doing OT on your allocated duty for that day ie you telling your manager
that

I'll not be able to complete/how much OT will it take you/extra half an hour/ok that's agreed

and not a colleague and manager agreeing 3 hours OT for doing 1/2 a walk which then only takes
1.5 hours (even though it's 'agreed'), I would imagine that's the sort of thing RM hierarchy are trying to stop
which is half way to being 'ghost' OT. Whether they'll then get anyone to do that half a walk for the time
it actually takes is a whole new argument!

[nuisance]

It would stop if the o/t rate were reasonable. Of course people will only do it if the effort is worth the reward.

We had this yesterday, only no walk overtime at all, walks not covered had to fail so people unlucky enough to be in those pairs today had whole walks not covered when people would have been willing to do the work. Totally crapping on the staff and again deliberately failing the USO. Union still do flip all about it.

Maybe it's another ploy to give them an excuse to pull out of the ballot again. Maybe some other nasty agenda, who knows with this shower of shite.

[Duesouth]

overtime (e.g., where a
(verbal) contract for overtime pay has been agreed with the manager prior to commencement).

Royal mail like to move the goal posts so much it's hard to keep up. I wouldn't say this is breaking the agreement, but by changing it to suit them.

One manager can say I'm only paying you for the minutes that it takes you to deliver and come back, which is fair enough. But then if the manager is so desperate to clear the office and that means paying over the odds, then that's on there heads and you benefit by getting more.

Going forward royal mail have to adhere to the agreement by clearing the office every day (USO). So whatever it takes to clear it's up to management, which will probably be more pressure.

[Dexydog]

3 hours and I'll clear that half walk boss.
No?
OK I'll leave it in.
Their choice.

[nuisance]

3 hours and I'll clear that half walk boss.
No?
OK I'll leave it in.
Their choice.

Then if you leave it in either you or whoever you shaft has to do it the next day on top of that day's work with no reward at all for it.

[scotchy1962]

3 hours and I'll clear that half walk boss.
No?
OK I'll leave it in.
Their choice.

Then if you leave it in either you or whoever you shaft has to do it the next day on top of that day's work with no reward at all for it.

I don't believe he has shafted anybody. The manager had a choice, the postie had completed his duty, whats the problem?

[postslippete]

This is what managers at our place often do. Pressure Postie A as much as possible and query why they are so useless on deliveries. Then entice Postie B the office runner who is working on their own on a cushy route that there are 2 loops of ghost overtime available if they want it.

Obviously this all depends on whatever mood the company are in at the moment.

[derekm]

3 hours and I'll clear that half walk boss.
No?
OK I'll leave it in.
Their choice.

Then if you leave it in either you or whoever you shaft has to do it the next day on top of that day's work with no reward at all for it.

Can’t see how dexy is shafting anyone?? He offered to do it for 3 hours boss refused end of.

[RHONE]

I was a regular o/t postie 3 hrs for 1/2 a del: and I took the rough with the smooth I don't think it was a piss take as we must be one of the only companies that doesn't pay an o/t rate of at least time and a half ,so I saw it as 3 hrs pay for around 2 hrs work fair enough especially when your pay decreased after 10 hrs

[nuisance]

[Can’t see how dexy is shafting anyone?? He offered to do it for 3 hours boss refused end of.

No, fair enough that was badly worded, my mind is imagining shared duties but sometimes going separately, sometimes pairs, IYKWIM? . The person on the duty is shafted, but it is RM at fault when they won't just cover the work.

[Mr Rush]

3 hours OT for doing 1/2 a walk which then only takes 1.5 hours (even though it's 'agreed'), I would imagine that's the sort of thing RM hierarchy are trying to stop which is half way to being 'ghost' OT. Whether they'll then get anyone to do that half a walk for the time it actually takes is a whole new argument!

That's just doubletime OT, surely? The RM hierarchy clearly chose wisely in electing to slay that particular dragon (let me count the number of walks that didn't go out today ).

Ghosting, as I understood it, was finishing your own walk early then doing agreed OT and still finishing within your contract hours - ie, being paid twice.

[Dexydog]

I absolutely will not do o/t for 8 quid an hour after tax.
Especially when I've just done an 8 hour shift and I'm already knackered.
I'll consider it if I think I can make 12-14 an hour after tax.
Otherwise they can stick it.
That's my choice.
RM set the shitty o/t rates, not me.

[Dexydog]

Oh, and if its Saturday it's double, or it stays in.
If I can be bothered.
Again, my choice.
It's their choice if they want to pay that or not.
Seems fair enough to me.