re: why I'm voting no

[k979aaa]

A massive No is not coming.
That's just nonsense.

That kind of response would need to be organised, the membership are not represented by the 800 comments on Facebook, if you think about that logically you'll understand the dangers of listening only to the loudest voices.

Who is going to show support for this agreement on FB?
Just to receive dogs abuse from a bunch of keyboard warriors?

What's far more likely if a vote were held tomorrow is a very poor turnout with probably a 60-65% yes vote. It might be even closer but it won't be a massive anything.

Apathy and resignation are the strongest feelings right now but who can be arsed putting that on Facebook?

Oh good, apathy and resignation save the day, eh?

Better get that ballot out so we can get that little effort over with and mope off ready to move on?

Dream on! We do a bleeding hike every day, a lot of us are tired but not in the way you're talking, and the way to help it isn't to back this deal.

Most find the later starts unpalatable, many find them impossible to marry into their life schedules.

Many fear they will be exploited and even exhausted if they sign up to the potential banking of hours to be added in the winter.

Many fear the implications of cut sick pay. How many sick and injured posties will have to carry on working, spreading illness and doing themselves permanent injuries?

The list of blatant problems with this agreement are endless before you even start on revisions and culture, how can you be so confident that more people have been bored and depressed into acceptance than haven't? If they have that is an utter tragedy of the union's making for giving some support to the joke of a deal before calling and withdrawing a vote on it. There needs to be some strong action soon, this is getting totally ludicrous.

Well the only course of action is rejection in your case if you get a vote that is.

[scotchy1962]

A massive No is not coming.
That's just nonsense.

That kind of response would need to be organised, the membership are not represented by the 800 comments on Facebook, if you think about that logically you'll understand the dangers of listening only to the loudest voices.

Who is going to show support for this agreement on FB?
Just to receive dogs abuse from a bunch of keyboard warriors?

What's far more likely if a vote were held tomorrow is a very poor turnout with probably a 60-65% yes vote. It might be even closer but it won't be a massive anything.

Apathy and resignation are the strongest feelings right now but who can be arsed putting that on Facebook?

This is coming from a rep, sort of sums up the problems in the union, defeatist, negative and trying to sway people with "What is the alternative" because we dont have one.
You and the union are prepared to sell out to save yourselves. Shame on you.

[49erman]

A massive No is not coming.
That's just nonsense.

That kind of response would need to be organised, the membership are not represented by the 800 comments on Facebook, if you think about that logically you'll understand the dangers of listening only to the loudest voices.

Who is going to show support for this agreement on FB?
Just to receive dogs abuse from a bunch of keyboard warriors?

What's far more likely if a vote were held tomorrow is a very poor turnout with probably a 60-65% yes vote. It might be even closer but it won't be a massive anything.

Apathy and resignation are the strongest feelings right now but who can be arsed putting that on Facebook?

This is coming from a rep, sort of sums up the problems in the union, defeatist, negative and trying to sway people with "What is the alternative" because we dont have one.
You and the union are prepared to sell out to save yourselves. Shame on you.

[k979aaa]

Not telling anyone how to vote a ballot is needed for it is part and parcel of democracy and I will abide by that vote!

[aiden01]

It's not fear that is driving people towards a yes vote and it's childish and disengenous to pretend that those people are scared.

What we are looking at is not some unknown boogeyman scenario but the reality of where the last 12 months has taken us and Royal Mail's behaviour during that time.

It is a pragmatic realisation that despite the full support of the membership the CWU has been largely powerless to stop that behaviour.

I'm not scared of the consequences of a No vote, I simply see it as an extremely pointless and very damaging and dangerous situation that I would be incredibly stupid to walk into and doubly so without an exit strategy.

That's what a No vote with a weak hand, a split membership, an ineffective leadership and no plan is.

Not frightening.
Just incredibly stupid.

So what you're saying is, whatever strategy RM want to use we just roll over and let them use it.
What message does that send come the next bout of "negotiations"?
I don't doubt they have been extremely difficult to deal with, but the union have been out manoeuvred from the start.
It's time we made a stand and let them know we won't allow them to change our contracts without a fight.
And that's right, there are parts they cannot change without resorting to fire and re-hire.
These should be our red lines- you know, the ones we started out with and the ones the union seem to now allow to be given up in return for keeping themselves in the workplace.
Get the ballot out, enough is enough.

Was striking for 18days through black fri,cyber mon, then xmas not taking a stand.an they hardly flinched.

I believe Aiden they flinched to the tune of a £billion, the thing is they were prepared to take the hit, we dont seem to be prepared to do the same.
I know you believe in voting yes to this as theres no alternative, but there is, there always is and its called a NO vote followed by whatever it takes, the same as RM did, until somebody changes direction.
Trying to make out that saying people are scared is childish or disingenuous is just not true, people are genuinely scared of the outcome all i am trying to do is allay their fears, trying to use what i say as a weapon against me is childish and disingenuous.

I think 18 days was quite enough for plenty of people me included could i continue striking yes but think most people cannot afford to.an i have not tried to scare anybody vote whatever way pleases you.just fed up with the reaction on here whenever somebody says they are voting yes.

[LouBarlow]

A massive No is not coming.
That's just nonsense.

That kind of response would need to be organised, the membership are not represented by the 800 comments on Facebook, if you think about that logically you'll understand the dangers of listening only to the loudest voices.

Who is going to show support for this agreement on FB?
Just to receive dogs abuse from a bunch of keyboard warriors?

What's far more likely if a vote were held tomorrow is a very poor turnout with probably a 60-65% yes vote. It might be even closer but it won't be a massive anything.

Apathy and resignation are the strongest feelings right now but who can be arsed putting that on Facebook?

Oh good, apathy and resignation save the day, eh?

Better get that ballot out so we can get that little effort over with and mope off ready to move on?

Dream on! We do a bleeding hike every day, a lot of us are tired but not in the way you're talking, and the way to help it isn't to back this deal.

Most find the later starts unpalatable, many find them impossible to marry into their life schedules.

Many fear they will be exploited and even exhausted if they sign up to the potential banking of hours to be added in the winter.

Many fear the implications of cut sick pay. How many sick and injured posties will have to carry on working, spreading illness and doing themselves permanent injuries?

The list of blatant problems with this agreement are endless before you even start on revisions and culture, how can you be so confident that more people have been bored and depressed into acceptance than haven't? If they have that is an utter tragedy of the union's making for giving some support to the joke of a deal before calling and withdrawing a vote on it. There needs to be some strong action soon, this is getting totally ludicrous.

This is all going to happen even if you vote against the agreement. You seem to think that RM need us to agree before they bring these changes in. They don’t.

[SpacePhoenix]

The longer this drags out, the more people are getting pissed off, I do wonder if this is going to backfire and end up with even more voting no

[steve2zaf]

A massive No is not coming.
That's just nonsense.

That kind of response would need to be organised, the membership are not represented by the 800 comments on Facebook, if you think about that logically you'll understand the dangers of listening only to the loudest voices.

Who is going to show support for this agreement on FB?
Just to receive dogs abuse from a bunch of keyboard warriors?

What's far more likely if a vote were held tomorrow is a very poor turnout with probably a 60-65% yes vote. It might be even closer but it won't be a massive anything.

Apathy and resignation are the strongest feelings right now but who can be arsed putting that on Facebook?

Woody - You can follow the pied piper(CWU) if you want - it doesn't end well if you know the story. A lot of us have self respect and are not prepared to accept this awful surrender deal. We are prepared to accept whatever happens after a NO vote is returned , while you expect us to kneel and be thankful for a few crumbs. You can keep on spouting dooms day or whatever floats your boat . To believe 65% or 2-1 will be in favour is incredibly optimistic or naive . The majority of delivery will vote NO - whether you like it / believe it or not. Also FB is a good indicator - simply because many people are expressing their office feelings/ morale . Anybody that disagrees with your views are keyboard warriors . LOL. You can keep spouting your union agenda till the cows come home.

[Basildon Bond]

Voting no isn’t some kind of ‘unknown’ scenario though. Both RM and the CWU have very specifically detailed what will happen if this deal is voted out. Whether you believe them is ultimately up to you.

Can you link me to this information? I may not have read exactly what you have read.

BTW: I'm being genuine in my request. If both sides have been very specific on what a 'no' vote will do I want to read it.

[LouBarlow]

Voting no isn’t some kind of ‘unknown’ scenario though. Both RM and the CWU have very specifically detailed what will happen if this deal is voted out. Whether you believe them is ultimately up to you.

Can you link me to this information? I may not have read exactly what you have read.

BTW: I'm being genuine in my request. If both sides have been very specific on what a 'no' vote will do I want to read it.

Just search for Martin Walsh’s posts here. He goes into detail. Members here think he is scaremongering for whatever reason, but ultimately he is the person you should be listening to, rather than people who like to think they are experts and know better.

[postslippete]

Credit to Martin for giving us information relating to the dispute.

Maybe there will be a bigger lump sum at the 11th hour put forward to help sweeten the deal like Dave Ward suggested. It wont be enough to make me vote yes but i'm sure some will take the carrot if it's big enough. Royal Mail want this deal but the question is how bad do they want it?