re: why I'm voting no

[postieblueshirt]

I think we can all agree however this all pans out the union in its current form are pretty much finished.Executive action the new royal mail mantra deems the union useless already ALL the union can do is call strike and we saw how that went.

[Woody Guthrie]

The union at the moment has a real problem, the membership are pretty peeved with them for what a lot of them see as a sell out.

I agree but I'm not going to use this agreement to punish CWU HQ or vent my frustration with the negotiators for presenting me with a poor choice to make. I'll find a way to vent my frustration that doesn't risk my financial security.

I believe that rejecting the agreement would be an act of self harm leaving me and my future in the hands of the very people I have no faith in. Why would I risk even more when as you state they've presented us with a sellout? Are we to believe that with a divided membership they'll somehow come up with something better?

It is completely illogical to believe that we can somehow achieve a better agreement with the same players from a weaker position.

The balance of risk against reward doesn't come close to stacking up. Unfortunately how "peeved" the members are doesn't change that.

[pieoftheday]

Vote No

[77SAMPOST77]

The union at the moment has a real problem, the membership are pretty peeved with them for what a lot of them see as a sell out.

I agree but I'm not going to use this agreement to punish CWU HQ or vent my frustration with the negotiators for presenting me with a poor choice to make. I'll find a way to vent my frustration that doesn't risk my financial security.

I believe that rejecting the agreement would be an act of self harm leaving me and my future in the hands of the very people I have no faith in. Why would I risk even more when as you state they've presented us with a sellout? Are we to believe that with a divided membership they'll somehow come up with something better?

It is completely illogical to believe that we can somehow achieve a better agreement with the same players from a weaker position.

The balance of risk against reward doesn't come close to stacking up. Unfortunately how "peeved" the members are doesn't change that.

So Woody says
(I'll find a way to vent my frustration that doesn't risk my financial security.)
When you find that way to vent could you please let us all know so we can all vent and bring royal mail begging on its knees ,
In the meantime my way of venting is by voting no .

[Woody Guthrie]

My venting is not towards Royal Mail, they're doing exactly what you would expect them to do in this situation, screw us for everything they can.

My frustration is with the CWU leadership which although I understand they're operating in a very difficult environment seem to have forgotten the members and local reps (who trust me are just as in the dark) in all this.

In the meantime my way of venting is by voting no .

Has it occurred to you that there are sections of senior Royal Mail management who hope you do.

Ultimately who suffers from your venting?

[Woody Guthrie]

Decisions like this are not the place for venting frustration or punishing or making grand political statements.

They must be made with a clear head and a clear aim, in this case to achieve the best possible deal for our members under the circumstances.

It's a simple choice.

If you think this deal is the best we're going to get vote Yes.

If you think rejecting this deal will ultimately lead to a better deal and are aware of the risks vote No.

Nothing else should really come into it, not anger or frustration or on the other side apathy or greed, just a bit of logical reasoning.

[LouBarlow]

I do not agree with the deal but I also do not agree with the alternative so unfortunately I accept that I will have to vote for something I do not agree with.

Honest question, if I'm reading it right...you're saying that something bad but known is better than something unknown?

Voting no isn’t some kind of ‘unknown’ scenario though. Both RM and the CWU have very specifically detailed what will happen if this deal is voted out. Whether you believe them is ultimately up to you.

[Wullie10]

What vote are you on about ? Is there a vote ? On what ? There's still no agreement as far as I know. You want to vote no on something that hasn't been agreed?

[postslippete]

Didn't Royal Mail make a 'best and final offer' last year? That offer was to make Sunday working voluntary with no compulsory redundancies and stagger the late start and finish times over 3 years. You don't need to be an legal expert to know that the only way that the business could make us work Sundays is by a change to our contracts and that needs to be something that is agreed by us and the employer; otherwise it would be a breach of contract!! The same must surely apply for the later start and finish times and as yet our office still don't have the revised start and finish times....

In these proposals last year the company also wanted seasonal variations by working 2 hours more in winter and 2 hours less in summer and also included the profit share scheme.


This is what Dave Ward said about the offer at the time


“These proposals spell the end of Royal Mail as we know it, and its degradation from a national institution into an unreliable, Uber-style gig economy company. Make no mistake about it: British postal workers are facing an Armageddon moment. We urge every member of the public to stand with their postie, and back them like never before.”

[scotchy1962]

Didn't Royal Mail make a 'best and final offer' last year? That offer was to make Sunday working voluntary with no compulsory redundancies and stagger the late start and finish times over 3 years. You don't need to be an legal expert to know that the only way that the business could make us work Sundays is by a change to our contracts and that needs to be something that is agreed by us and the employer; otherwise it would be a breach of contract!! The same must surely apply for the later start and finish times and as yet our office still don't have the revised start and finish times....

In these proposals last year the company also wanted seasonal variations by working 2 hours more in winter and 2 hours less in summer and also included the profit share scheme.


This is what Dave Ward said about the offer at the time


“These proposals spell the end of Royal Mail as we know it, and its degradation from a national institution into an unreliable, Uber-style gig economy company. Make no mistake about it: British postal workers are facing an Armageddon moment. We urge every member of the public to stand with their postie, and back them like never before.”

Ah Touche Pete, that is a great statement by a man who supposedly represents our best interests.
I know that what i look at isnt acceptable to me, but threaten me a bit and suddenly its the best i can get. Give us a break!!
I cant accept this agreement and in reality nobody really wants to accept it, but the fear of what might happen is making some people accept it.
I will not tell anybody how to vote, but dont be scared of what might happen. Just over a year ago we all thought this would have been over and look where we are now, nobody forecast it or promised we would still be in dispute yet we are.
Fear shouldnt be the overriding factor in accepting anything and i aint scared.

[Woody Guthrie]

It's not fear that is driving people towards a yes vote and it's childish and disengenous to pretend that those people are scared.

What we are looking at is not some unknown boogeyman scenario but the reality of where the last 12 months has taken us and Royal Mail's behaviour during that time.

It is a pragmatic realisation that despite the full support of the membership the CWU has been largely powerless to stop that behaviour.

I'm not scared of the consequences of a No vote, I simply see it as an extremely pointless and very damaging and dangerous situation that I would be incredibly stupid to walk into and doubly so without an exit strategy.

That's what a No vote with a weak hand, a split membership, an ineffective leadership and no plan is.

Not frightening.
Just incredibly stupid.

[zz666]

Would be quite nice to have a vote on it.

[Dexydog]

It's not fear that is driving people towards a yes vote and it's childish and disengenous to pretend that those people are scared.

What we are looking at is not some unknown boogeyman scenario but the reality of where the last 12 months has taken us and Royal Mail's behaviour during that time.

It is a pragmatic realisation that despite the full support of the membership the CWU has been largely powerless to stop that behaviour.

I'm not scared of the consequences of a No vote, I simply see it as an extremely pointless and very damaging and dangerous situation that I would be incredibly stupid to walk into and doubly so without an exit strategy.

That's what a No vote with a weak hand, a split membership, an ineffective leadership and no plan is.

Not frightening.
Just incredibly stupid.

So what you're saying is, whatever strategy RM want to use we just roll over and let them use it.
What message does that send come the next bout of "negotiations"?
I don't doubt they have been extremely difficult to deal with, but the union have been out manoeuvred from the start.
It's time we made a stand and let them know we won't allow them to change our contracts without a fight.
And that's right, there are parts they cannot change without resorting to fire and re-hire.
These should be our red lines- you know, the ones we started out with and the ones the union seem to now allow to be given up in return for keeping themselves in the workplace.
Get the ballot out, enough is enough.

[aiden01]

It's not fear that is driving people towards a yes vote and it's childish and disengenous to pretend that those people are scared.

What we are looking at is not some unknown boogeyman scenario but the reality of where the last 12 months has taken us and Royal Mail's behaviour during that time.

It is a pragmatic realisation that despite the full support of the membership the CWU has been largely powerless to stop that behaviour.

I'm not scared of the consequences of a No vote, I simply see it as an extremely pointless and very damaging and dangerous situation that I would be incredibly stupid to walk into and doubly so without an exit strategy.

That's what a No vote with a weak hand, a split membership, an ineffective leadership and no plan is.

Not frightening.
Just incredibly stupid.

So what you're saying is, whatever strategy RM want to use we just roll over and let them use it.
What message does that send come the next bout of "negotiations"?
I don't doubt they have been extremely difficult to deal with, but the union have been out manoeuvred from the start.
It's time we made a stand and let them know we won't allow them to change our contracts without a fight.
And that's right, there are parts they cannot change without resorting to fire and re-hire.
These should be our red lines- you know, the ones we started out with and the ones the union seem to now allow to be given up in return for keeping themselves in the workplace.
Get the ballot out, enough is enough.

Was striking for 18days through black fri,cyber mon, then xmas not taking a stand.an they hardly flinched.

[X_hamster]

A no vote will be returned.

Read the current 800+ comments on fbook.

People are sick and tired and want their NO vote in

Not just a Yes its still a job nonsense.