Vote No.

[Linden14]

All the sacrifices are been pushed on the workers on the front line,it should start at the top and be spread out evenly throughout the company,I'm not seeing that why?

[scotchy1962]

Enskied if I was still on deliveries and I knew what I did in terms of both the companies finances and their change agenda then yes I would still have agreed the negotiators agreement.

It does make me chuckle at times , us on the postal executive have seen warts and all the real threat to Royal Mail future and what the company was legally obligated to do to avoid administration.

Yet some on here are now economists and claim it is all lies or the government would save us.

Well your anonymous on this site along with many others who if your wrong who blames you if 30 thousand jobs went or individuals did not get regularly paid.?

Then you have the others who should we let the company go to the wall as it is not our fault with the claim I rather die on my feet then accept the deal. Again they are anonymous and not responsible for 114 thousand members jobs.

Now what do you think will change from voting no ?

1. Do you think Royal Mail are going to continue to fly planes so ghee would be no later starts ? if you do then how you going to make a company who knows the growth in parcels is later and offering a greener option. We have done as much as we can to achieve up to 60 minutes option which we have 4 months to improve on and there will be an exemptions process as well. Start and finish times will come out if a joint statement is reached to resolve 2.5.

2. Our members deserve more pay but the company has declared a loss of over 400 million there was simply no more money to be had.

3. On seasonal variations, Royal Mail wanted no finishing times linked to Siso. Royal Mail have 3 senior directors who come from Land Rover jaguar and wanted annualised hours and productivity normally drops in the summer as traffic dips and yet we have the same number of walks. This has resulted in high levels of absorption.
Seasonal variations is aimed at reducing absorption and the period will run from September 203 to September 2024. All hours will balance over this period. Hours have never balanced over a tax year in fact prior to the way forward we had 2 separate annual leave periods summer and winter.

4. The 30 minute flex option is subject to review but it will not mean anyone will have to flex every day , the current agreement which is not used now is voluntary and with seasonal variations we don’t see that changing.

5. On new entrants, the vast majority of our members did not want to be forced to work Sundays or move later to cover dedicated parcel routes. Once we achieved this in negotiations Royal Mail were always going to introduce a separate workforce to pick up this growth in traffic.

6. The agreement has stopped Royal Mail setting up a separate parcel company and introducing owner drivers on the core deliveries both were priorities of the company’ at the start of the dispute.

7. I do not think that Delivery staff truly understand the significance of the Midland Hub opening up next month and what will have over the next few months. Apart from some rural routes all your large parcels will at some stage not arrive in your Delivery unit. All of a sudden a delivery unit has is letters , flats , d2d , tracked , PS and smaller format 1&2 parcels.

This is why Royal Mail want delivery method changes ,this is why the union wants commitments on no compulsory redundancies and to try and attract our members though better attendance to pick up Dedicated parcel routes and Sundays or we giving the growth to new recruits and owner drivers.

8. No one wanted to see the attendance changes in any agreement but the company were going to impose the changes to the trigger points and give 90 days legal notice on SSP And Ill health retirement. We decided to move modify those changes.

9. The company did not want the independent review into cases and now those members and reps have got the best opportunity to get justice.

So yes I would. This is the best deal in the circumstances we faced , it is not a perfect deal.

Do you really think that it did not cross our minds to be popular to announce more strike action because we knew elements of these agreement would not go down well.

However we would have been playing Russian roulette with yours and all of our members jobs and terms and conditions.

Lots of my mates think I am mad to keep posting on this site or other social media as it is easy for some to call me names and make snide remarks or assumptions which are completely unfounded.

However I have posted on this site for 16 years and I will be bullied or stopped from giving my view and opinion even when most will not even read it before commenting.

Very good Martin you make a great defence of a poor deal, quite frankly i dont really care about a lot of what RM want. I know you are trying to defend jobs as you perceive a threat to them, but again we are all aware of what they are threatening.
You gloss over things that we in delivery know some of the management team will use every day if they get a chance. So you can see why we worry about these things. This is why it needs to be etched in stone, any ambiguity and managers will abuse it.
The finances which you have seen and it obviously worried you are again not my problem, it might sound selfish but i have been around a few years and worked in a lot of different companies and represented by different unions, i dont believe them but i can understand the fear for the union, job cuts, less members and a implosion of RM as we know it. Creative accounting has been around for years.
I know you think everything you have in this agreement is a small victory, but if this is the way forward and every pay talks it is the same then at what stage do you on behalf of us say "NO" if not now. Does it matter if all you do is delaying the inevitable and thats what it looks like to me.
Get the votes out, stop delaying and have some faith in the members, we have heard the arguments from both sides let us decide and we can all get on with whatever the outcome is. Fear of what might happen is not a excuse for delay.

[nuisance]

We have also just reached a point in the year where extremes of weather (and alternatively lack of daylight in the winter) become a real problem on delivery and it just isn't healthy for us to be marching around our daily hikes in the mid-afternoon sun. I don't care if it saves them a few quid, it's disgusting that RM prioritise that over the health of their staff, at the same time as trying to cut sick pay as well. The union need to get back on the right side and represent the workers like they're supposed to, they've crossed so many unacceptable lines supporting RM with this agenda.

[LouBarlow]

We have also just reached a point in the year where extremes of weather (and alternatively lack of daylight in the winter) become a real problem on delivery and it just isn't healthy for us to be marching around our daily hikes in the mid-afternoon sun. I don't care if it saves them a few quid, it's disgusting that RM prioritise that over the health of their staff, at the same time as trying to cut sick pay as well. The union need to get back on the right side and represent the workers like they're supposed to, they've crossed so many unacceptable lines supporting RM with this agenda.

How do you advise avoiding the mid-day sun on delivery then? Be out delivering at 4am? People need to take personal responsibility and protect themselves in the sun. Cover up, wear a hat and get on with it, as we have all been doing for years now, and how post-people in actually hot countries do.

[49erman]

We have also just reached a point in the year where extremes of weather (and alternatively lack of daylight in the winter) become a real problem on delivery and it just isn't healthy for us to be marching around our daily hikes in the mid-afternoon sun. I don't care if it saves them a few quid, it's disgusting that RM prioritise that over the health of their staff, at the same time as trying to cut sick pay as well. The union need to get back on the right side and represent the workers like they're supposed to, they've crossed so many unacceptable lines supporting RM with this agenda.

How do you advise avoiding the mid-day sun on delivery then? Be out delivering at 4am? People need to take personal responsibility and protect themselves in the sun. Cover up, wear a hat and get on with it, as we have all been doing for years now, and how post-people in actually hot countries do.

It’s not the midday sun Lou, if you look at our climate now the hottest time is around 3-4pm which the later starts will be running in to……..

[LouBarlow]

We have also just reached a point in the year where extremes of weather (and alternatively lack of daylight in the winter) become a real problem on delivery and it just isn't healthy for us to be marching around our daily hikes in the mid-afternoon sun. I don't care if it saves them a few quid, it's disgusting that RM prioritise that over the health of their staff, at the same time as trying to cut sick pay as well. The union need to get back on the right side and represent the workers like they're supposed to, they've crossed so many unacceptable lines supporting RM with this agenda.

How do you advise avoiding the mid-day sun on delivery then? Be out delivering at 4am? People need to take personal responsibility and protect themselves in the sun. Cover up, wear a hat and get on with it, as we have all been doing for years now, and how post-people in actually hot countries do.

It’s not the midday sun Lou, if you look at our climate now the hottest time is around 3-4pm which the later starts will be running in to……..

Nonsense. The hottest time of the day is 11am-3pm according to the Met.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/wa ... mmed%20hat.

We have all been delivering between those hours for years now.

[marroc327]

We in the east anglia will be voting yes,business needs to change fact

[postslippete]

Enskied if I was still on deliveries and I knew what I did in terms of both the companies finances and their change agenda then yes I would still have agreed the negotiators agreement.

It does make me chuckle at times , us on the postal executive have seen warts and all the real threat to Royal Mail future and what the company was legally obligated to do to avoid administration.

Yet some on here are now economists and claim it is all lies or the government would save us

The financial position of the company is something that Royal Mail and now the union are using to push this agreement through. Anyone who believes that the company is going into administration having just offloaded most of the profits that they made last year really need to give their heads a wobble.

Also, last year Simon Thompson went straight to the media over 10,000 job losses, now the union have adopted the same tactic to try and push this deal through. The reality is that the company as part of its rightsizing programme already made 10,000 job losses the year before and it wanted to make a further 5,000 reduction in FTEs before the end of march. Look at any delivery office and you will see that it is massively understaffed usually relying on staff doing overtime and agency workers.

The reality is it's a crap deal that sets us up towards the gig economy.

[ted_e_bear]

We have also just reached a point in the year where extremes of weather (and alternatively lack of daylight in the winter) become a real problem on delivery and it just isn't healthy for us to be marching around our daily hikes in the mid-afternoon sun. I don't care if it saves them a few quid, it's disgusting that RM prioritise that over the health of their staff, at the same time as trying to cut sick pay as well. The union need to get back on the right side and represent the workers like they're supposed to, they've crossed so many unacceptable lines supporting RM with this agenda.

How do you advise avoiding the mid-day sun on delivery then? Be out delivering at 4am? People need to take personal responsibility and protect themselves in the sun. Cover up, wear a hat and get on with it, as we have all been doing for years now, and how post-people in actually hot countries do.

It’s not the midday sun Lou, if you look at our climate now the hottest time is around 3-4pm which the later starts will be running in to……..

Nonsense. The hottest time of the day is 11am-3pm according to the Met.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/wa ... mmed%20hat.

We have all been delivering between those hours for years now.

I'm in agreement on the late afternoon heat, had a few cold ones in the garden yesterday after work, it was bloody hot, here's today's forecast predicting the same time of day for the high.

Screenshot_20230604-094951.png

[LouBarlow]

We have also just reached a point in the year where extremes of weather (and alternatively lack of daylight in the winter) become a real problem on delivery and it just isn't healthy for us to be marching around our daily hikes in the mid-afternoon sun. I don't care if it saves them a few quid, it's disgusting that RM prioritise that over the health of their staff, at the same time as trying to cut sick pay as well. The union need to get back on the right side and represent the workers like they're supposed to, they've crossed so many unacceptable lines supporting RM with this agenda.

How do you advise avoiding the mid-day sun on delivery then? Be out delivering at 4am? People need to take personal responsibility and protect themselves in the sun. Cover up, wear a hat and get on with it, as we have all been doing for years now, and how post-people in actually hot countries do.

It’s not the midday sun Lou, if you look at our climate now the hottest time is around 3-4pm which the later starts will be running in to……..

Nonsense. The hottest time of the day is 11am-3pm according to the Met.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/wa ... mmed%20hat.

We have all been delivering between those hours for years now.

I'm in agreement on the late afternoon heat, had a few cold ones in the garden yesterday after work, it was bloody hot, here's today's forecast predicting the same time of day for the high.
Screenshot_20230604-094951.png

I’m not sure what the alternative is then. Either work through the night or do as we have done for decades now, wear a hat and protect yourself by covering up. They have posties in actual hot countries and they survive.

I understand people having problems with later starts for legitimate reasons, such as childcare etc, but not because of the weather. Sorry.

[ted_e_bear]

We have also just reached a point in the year where extremes of weather (and alternatively lack of daylight in the winter) become a real problem on delivery and it just isn't healthy for us to be marching around our daily hikes in the mid-afternoon sun. I don't care if it saves them a few quid, it's disgusting that RM prioritise that over the health of their staff, at the same time as trying to cut sick pay as well. The union need to get back on the right side and represent the workers like they're supposed to, they've crossed so many unacceptable lines supporting RM with this agenda.

How do you advise avoiding the mid-day sun on delivery then? Be out delivering at 4am? People need to take personal responsibility and protect themselves in the sun. Cover up, wear a hat and get on with it, as we have all been doing for years now, and how post-people in actually hot countries do.

It’s not the midday sun Lou, if you look at our climate now the hottest time is around 3-4pm which the later starts will be running in to……..

Nonsense. The hottest time of the day is 11am-3pm according to the Met.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/wa ... mmed%20hat.

We have all been delivering between those hours for years now.

I'm in agreement on the late afternoon heat, had a few cold ones in the garden yesterday after work, it was bloody hot, here's today's forecast predicting the same time of day for the high.
Screenshot_20230604-094951.png

I’m not sure what the alternative is then. Either work through the night or do as we have done for decades now, wear a hat and protect yourself by covering up. They have posties in actual hot countries and they survive.

I understand people having problems with later starts for legitimate reasons, such as childcare etc, but not because of the weather. Sorry.

Me neither, going back to 2.5 hr deliveries would cure a lot of the gripes on here regarding the physicality of the job but then we'd be looking at a predominantly part time workforce so that's no good either, I give in I don't know the answer.

[stevejm]

It’s not the midday sun Lou, if you look at our climate now the hottest time is around 3-4pm which the later starts will be running in to……..

Nonsense. The hottest time of the day is 11am-3pm according to the Met.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/wa ... mmed%20hat.

We have all been delivering between those hours for years now.

Use your common sense man - any hours quoted depends on time of year - obviously in th ewinter it will be dark at 4.30 pm and even in Spring and Autumn by 6pm - so yes, for most of year it is true that hottest time of the day will be between 11am-3pm. But, hot temperatures in those 3 seasons are not an issue are they???

Hot temperatures in the summer are the issue. And often the hottest hours of the day are from 2pm-6pm. You drag up misleading information just to win a debate - sneaky and underhand. Do better!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

[postslippete]

Me neither, going back to 2.5 hr deliveries would cure a lot of the gripes on here regarding the physicality of the job but then we'd be looking at a predominantly part time workforce so that's no good either, I give in I don't know the answer.

The answer is to have 2 different shifts. One is to have morning posties delivering mainly the mail between the hours of 6am-2pm and the other is to have afternoon staff and agency delivering the parcels and the larger stuff between hours of 2pm-10pm.

In this way there are less vans being used and everybody's happy.

[nuisance]

I’m not sure what the alternative is then. Either work through the night or do as we have done for decades now, wear a hat and protect yourself by covering up. They have posties in actual hot countries and they survive.

I understand people having problems with later starts for legitimate reasons, such as childcare etc, but not because of the weather. Sorry.

It's the time you can endure in the heat really. If we get the bulk of our delivery done before 12, then cope with a couple of hours in the real heat, that's one thing, but withstanding the worst heat over the entire delivery span? That's asking too much of our bodies. I do loads of walk overtime and I have to stop in the height of summer just because I know I cannot cope with being out all afternoon in the peak heat. I think this issue is being totally underestimated.

[ted_e_bear]

Me neither, going back to 2.5 hr deliveries would cure a lot of the gripes on here regarding the physicality of the job but then we'd be looking at a predominantly part time workforce so that's no good either, I give in I don't know the answer.

The answer is to have 2 different shifts. One is to have morning posties delivering mainly the mail between the hours of 6am-2pm and the other is to have afternoon staff and agency delivering the parcels and the larger stuff between hours of 2pm-10pm.

In this way there are less vans being used and everybody's happy.

I thought of something along those lines but the mail wouldn't be available early enough these days, mind you we're delivering some mail a day or two late anyway, yes parcel delivery using a van with Aircon would be fine throughout the hottest part of summer.