Vote No.

[Linden14]

Anyone seen Martin Walsh?….not heard from the sellout last couple of days.

Cwu ignoring members again ,usual pattern in this sorry saga

[koolishy67]

CWU only allow us to vote only when they think it's going to be yes till then no payrise no lump sump and enjoy extra workload

[Terrier9]

If we had another world war who would you fight for? Should we vote yes or no?

[redlen]

Martin Walsh is a CWU company man, so unrealistic for him to say what he truly feels.

Have sparred with him a few times but also respect his view, even though might not agree with those views. But have always been respectful. Likewise, Martin Walsh has never been discourteous to anybody and you respect the man for that.

The CWU now adopting three wise monkeys, shows the total disrespect they have for the members with Do as I say not as I do mentality.

It is obvious the CWU have had their fingers well and truly burned with trying to sell this agreement, yet continue with the hard sell. The question to ask is why.

Why the overnight capitulation and accepting all the loss in terms and conditions?
Saying the financials of the company do not wash as they have had access to those records for a year.
Stopping the ballot a day before voting saying the company is not honouring the agreement is hog wash. There is no agreement until signed off. The real reason is they are aware a strong possibility of a No vote.
It is about time they put everything into the open, warts et al.

There is a total lack of trust with Royal Mail and the CWU in representing the best interests of its employees and members.

[Linden14]

Martin Walsh is a CWU company man, so unrealistic for him to say what he truly feels.

Have sparred with him a few times but also respect his view, even though might not agree with those views. But have always been respectful. Likewise, Martin Walsh has never been discourteous to anybody and you respect the man for that.

The CWU now adopting three wise monkeys, shows the total disrespect they have for the members with Do as I say not as I do mentality.

It is obvious the CWU have had their fingers well and truly burned with trying to sell this agreement, yet continue with the hard sell. The question to ask is why.

Why the overnight capitulation and accepting all the loss in terms and conditions?
Saying the financials of the company do not wash as they have had access to those records for a year.
Stopping the ballot a day before voting saying the company is not honouring the agreement is hog wash. There is no agreement until signed off. The real reason is they are aware a strong possibility of a No vote.
It is about time they put everything into the open, warts et al.

There is a total lack of trust with Royal Mail and the CWU in representing the best interests of its employees and members.

[Woody Guthrie]

Anyone seen Martin Walsh?….not heard from the sellout last couple of days.

This is kind of the reason certain people have a skewed perception of the true feelings of the membership.

There are probably around 15,000 members on this site alone but if you were reading this kind of comment and believe this agreement is the only way forward why would you set yourself up for abuse by commenting on here?

Much the same applies to Facebook and Twitter , if you create a toxic environment for anyone with a different viewpoint all you end up with is an echo chamber full of confirmation bias and a completely skewed perception of reality.

This can also apply in an office environment where people slowly stop engaging in conversation around the agreement and all the noise is against the agreement but it's coming from a diminishing number of people.

If members genuinely want to build momentum for a rejection they need to do better than just calling the deal s**t and anyone who supports it a sellout.

Whether you agree with Martin or not and I've had probably more disagreements with him on here than most over the years he is at least attempting to engage with those opposed to the agreement, the very least people can do is attempt to reciprocate that engagement rather than just call him names like a playground bully.

[Woody Guthrie]

If you believe that Royal Mail wants this agreement signed off it makes sense for the union to use that to try to force some behavioral change from management.

If real evidence of that change also helps the union to achieve an acceptance of an agreement the CWU also genuinely believes is the only realistic way forward that also makes sense.

There's no deep, dark conspiracy in any of that, it's just common sense but the clock is ticking and a decision on whether to go ahead with the ballot will have to be made soon.

The union have played a high risk strategy by suspending the ballot because if Royal Mail doesn't blink it will be difficult to continue with the ballot without a complete u-turn and a recommendation to reject.

Pulling the ballot entirely would de-legitimise any further action because Royal Mail would quite rightly question why the membership didn't get a say.

[freespeech]

Anyone seen Martin Walsh?….not heard from the sellout last couple of days.

This is kind of the reason certain people have a skewed perception of the true feelings of the membership.

There are probably around 15,000 members on this site alone but if you were reading this kind of comment and believe this agreement is the only way forward why would you set yourself up for abuse by commenting on here?

Much the same applies to Facebook and Twitter , if you create a toxic environment for anyone with a different viewpoint all you end up with is an echo chamber full of confirmation bias and a completely skewed perception of reality.

This can also apply in an office environment where people slowly stop engaging in conversation around the agreement and all the noise is against the agreement but it's coming from a diminishing number of people.

If members genuinely want to build momentum for a rejection they need to do better than just calling the deal s**t and anyone who supports it a sellout.

Whether you agree with Martin or not and I've had probably more disagreements with him on here than most over the years he is at least attempting to engage with those opposed to the agreement, the very least people can do is attempt to reciprocate that engagement rather than just call him names like a playground bully.

Ab.....so......lute....ly spot on. Especially this bit "if you create a toxic environment for anyone with a different viewpoint all you end up with is an echo chamber full of confirmation bias and a completely skewed perception of reality".

[moon71]

The bias on the board shows a 75% no vote.

It will be interesting what the vote will end up.

If we get one.

[Woody Guthrie]

The bias on the board shows a 75% no vote.

It will be interesting what the vote will end up.

If we get one.

All previous polls on here on every agreement since 2007 have shown roughly the same and all have ended up as convincing roughly 75% yes votes.

Although I think this one if it happens will be considerably closer it definitely won't mirror the result of the poll on here.

My biggest fear is that it will be so close that it completely undermines the position of the union leaving them with no real mandate to do anything. I think that's also the union's fear, not that the agreement will be massively rejected but that it will be the worst result possible, a roughly 50/50 split.

[hans solo]

And a 50 /50 war between members at work
And a possible withdrawal from CWU

[enskied]

for Martin Walsh.

If you were a delivery postman Martin would you agree to this?
Reduced terms and conditions. No fixed end to your delivery span. No, ot for the extra hours you put in. The extra money you have to pay out for childcare.

Would you vote yes to this crap deal, if you were on delivery. Would you?

[enskied]

He wouldn't. He would fight it tooth and claw.
But he's not on delivery.

He's executive.

[Martin Walsh]

Enskied if I was still on deliveries and I knew what I did in terms of both the companies finances and their change agenda then yes I would still have agreed the negotiators agreement.

It does make me chuckle at times , us on the postal executive have seen warts and all the real threat to Royal Mail future and what the company was legally obligated to do to avoid administration.

Yet some on here are now economists and claim it is all lies or the government would save us.

Well your anonymous on this site along with many others who if your wrong who blames you if 30 thousand jobs went or individuals did not get regularly paid.?

Then you have the others who should we let the company go to the wall as it is not our fault with the claim I rather die on my feet then accept the deal. Again they are anonymous and not responsible for 114 thousand members jobs.

Now what do you think will change from voting no ?

1. Do you think Royal Mail are going to continue to fly planes so ghee would be no later starts ? if you do then how you going to make a company who knows the growth in parcels is later and offering a greener option. We have done as much as we can to achieve up to 60 minutes option which we have 4 months to improve on and there will be an exemptions process as well. Start and finish times will come out if a joint statement is reached to resolve 2.5.

2. Our members deserve more pay but the company has declared a loss of over 400 million there was simply no more money to be had.

3. On seasonal variations, Royal Mail wanted no finishing times linked to Siso. Royal Mail have 3 senior directors who come from Land Rover jaguar and wanted annualised hours and productivity normally drops in the summer as traffic dips and yet we have the same number of walks. This has resulted in high levels of absorption.
Seasonal variations is aimed at reducing absorption and the period will run from September 203 to September 2024. All hours will balance over this period. Hours have never balanced over a tax year in fact prior to the way forward we had 2 separate annual leave periods summer and winter.

4. The 30 minute flex option is subject to review but it will not mean anyone will have to flex every day , the current agreement which is not used now is voluntary and with seasonal variations we don’t see that changing.

5. On new entrants, the vast majority of our members did not want to be forced to work Sundays or move later to cover dedicated parcel routes. Once we achieved this in negotiations Royal Mail were always going to introduce a separate workforce to pick up this growth in traffic.

6. The agreement has stopped Royal Mail setting up a separate parcel company and introducing owner drivers on the core deliveries both were priorities of the company’ at the start of the dispute.

7. I do not think that Delivery staff truly understand the significance of the Midland Hub opening up next month and what will have over the next few months. Apart from some rural routes all your large parcels will at some stage not arrive in your Delivery unit. All of a sudden a delivery unit has is letters , flats , d2d , tracked , PS and smaller format 1&2 parcels.

This is why Royal Mail want delivery method changes ,this is why the union wants commitments on no compulsory redundancies and to try and attract our members though better attendance to pick up Dedicated parcel routes and Sundays or we giving the growth to new recruits and owner drivers.

8. No one wanted to see the attendance changes in any agreement but the company were going to impose the changes to the trigger points and give 90 days legal notice on SSP And Ill health retirement. We decided to move modify those changes.

9. The company did not want the independent review into cases and now those members and reps have got the best opportunity to get justice.

So yes I would. This is the best deal in the circumstances we faced , it is not a perfect deal.

Do you really think that it did not cross our minds to be popular to announce more strike action because we knew elements of these agreement would not go down well.

However we would have been playing Russian roulette with yours and all of our members jobs and terms and conditions.

Lots of my mates think I am mad to keep posting on this site or other social media as it is easy for some to call me names and make snide remarks or assumptions which are completely unfounded.

However I have posted on this site for 16 years and I will be bullied or stopped from giving my view and opinion even when most will not even read it before commenting.

[scotchy1962]

Anyone seen Martin Walsh?….not heard from the sellout last couple of days.

This is kind of the reason certain people have a skewed perception of the true feelings of the membership.

There are probably around 15,000 members on this site alone but if you were reading this kind of comment and believe this agreement is the only way forward why would you set yourself up for abuse by commenting on here?

Much the same applies to Facebook and Twitter , if you create a toxic environment for anyone with a different viewpoint all you end up with is an echo chamber full of confirmation bias and a completely skewed perception of reality.

This can also apply in an office environment where people slowly stop engaging in conversation around the agreement and all the noise is against the agreement but it's coming from a diminishing number of people.

If members genuinely want to build momentum for a rejection they need to do better than just calling the deal s**t and anyone who supports it a sellout.

Whether you agree with Martin or not and I've had probably more disagreements with him on here than most over the years he is at least attempting to engage with those opposed to the agreement, the very least people can do is attempt to reciprocate that engagement rather than just call him names like a playground bully.

We all know what is going on. The union are delaying to try to make sure the result goes the way it wants. You can wrap this up whatever way you like, its a piss poor agreement which shafts in particular delivery, calling a deal s**t doesnt mean it isnt s**t.
The members only have social media to voice their disapproval so genuinely building a momentum for rejection is a problem as the union supporters shoot them down with "Whats the alternative".
We the members shouldnt be asked what the alternative is, its pretty obvious if its a NO vote then the alternative is something different to what they put in the first one. We pay our subs to be represented by this union, ALL of us! Whatever way the vote goes they will have to deal with it or step aside and let someone who will deal with it take over.
Martin Walsh is a big boy, he can deal with a bit of "sticks and stones", him and our union need to get the vote underway, every day of delay, and now its weeks, weakens them in my eyes and just fuels the conspiracy theorists and angers the members.
If as the union keep saying this is it, the last and final offer then lets see what everyone thinks of it.