Vote No.

[Flashman_]

Vote either way and there will be more stripping of terms and conditions.
It's arguable which way will drive them down faster but I believe on the evidence of past behaviour a no vote would win that race easily.

So the destruction of terms and conditions is not an argument to vote no.

As I've said before the only "sensible" reason to vote no is if you genuinely believe it will improve our situation and you're willing to pay the price if it makes things worse.

There are other reasons to vote no but they are all emotional and definitely not sensible.

What past evidence?

The past evidence I have experienced is that management have failed to adhere to any agreement ever made and within weeks.

What happened the last time we voted NO to a negotiated agreement ?

I was wondering wtf woody meant too. I have never seen a no vote to and agreement, Please enlighten us Woody.

[enskied]

We in the east anglia will be voting yes,business needs to change fact

So no answers from East Anglia then.

[aiden01]

Vote either way and there will be more stripping of terms and conditions.
It's arguable which way will drive them down faster but I believe on the evidence of past behaviour a no vote would win that race easily.

So the destruction of terms and conditions is not an argument to vote no.

As I've said before the only "sensible" reason to vote no is if you genuinely believe it will improve our situation and you're willing to pay the price if it makes things worse.

There are other reasons to vote no but they are all emotional and definitely not sensible.

What past evidence?

The past evidence I have experienced is that management have failed to adhere to any agreement ever made and within weeks.

What happened the last time we voted NO to a negotiated agreement ?

I was wondering wtf woody meant too. I have never seen a no vote to and agreement, Please enlighten us Woody.

Way forward was voted out in 1st ballot.

[redlen]

Believe it was the Way Forward 2000 agreement that got rejected to begin with?

But people saying what options/recommendations members need to show if we reject this agreement is a moot point. The members reject a deal. It is then up to national leaders to propose further solutions for being qualified as representatives and acting on the members' behalf. Exactly what happened with the nurses strike and RCN Members?

If the members reject this agreement, then the CWU leadership needs to accept the members' wishes and deal with it, not continue with a campaign of acceptance contrary to the wishes of the members. The members are the CWU.

[Woody Guthrie]

I was wondering wtf woody meant too. I have never seen a no vote to and agreement, Please enlighten us Woody.

A no vote puts us back in dispute with the employer.
During the last 12 months while in dispute with the employer they have accelerated their attacks on our terms and conditions.
Past evidence...

But people saying what options/recommendations members need to show if we reject this agreement is a moot point.The members reject a deal. It is then up to national leaders to propose further solutions

No it really isn't.
If this deal is rejected it will be up to those who rejected the deal to communicate exactly why they have rejected the deal and what it is they want from any fresh negotiations.

That is only fair, the CWU cannot go into fresh negotiations blind and you can't exactly expect those who supported the deal to do it can you?

It will also be necessary to convince the whole membership that these new aims are achievable before you expect those who voted yes to take further industrial action in support of a position they do not agree with.

That would take a fresh ballot.

Nobody gets a free ride from this and nobody gets to wash their hands of it just by putting an X in a box and leaving it up to others to sort out the mess.

[enskied]

I was wondering wtf woody meant too. I have never seen a no vote to and agreement, Please enlighten us Woody.

A no vote puts us back in dispute with the employer.
During the last 12 months while in dispute with the employer they have accelerated their attacks on our terms and conditions.
Past evidence...

But people saying what options/recommendations members need to show if we reject this agreement is a moot point.The members reject a deal. It is then up to national leaders to propose further solutions

No it really isn't.
If this deal is rejected it will be up to those who rejected the deal to communicate exactly why they have rejected the deal and what it is they want from any fresh negotiations.

That is only fair, the CWU cannot go into fresh negotiations blind and you can't exactly expect those who supported the deal to do it can you?

It will also be necessary to convince the whole membership that these new aims are achievable before you expect those who voted yes to take further industrial action in support of a position they do not agree with.

That would take a fresh ballot.

Nobody gets a free ride from this and nobody gets to wash their hands of it just by putting an X in a box and leaving it up to others to sort out the mess.

Woody, are you really saying that the CWU would be going in blind ?
You are suggesting that they have not been informed by the membership.

I think that the CWU are absolutely aware.

[Caesar]

I haven’t really commented on the vote issue mainly due to not being very good at getting my point across.
So thanks Woody Guthrie because you have posted what I’ve been thinking.

[Woody Guthrie]

Woody, are you really saying that the CWU would be going in blind ?
You are suggesting that they have not been informed by the membership.

The membership is 110,000 not just those who post on Facebook.

Do we just ignore the silent majority and only listen to the loudest voices.

[nuisance]

The union know why this deal is unacceptable to a lot of us, I'm not wasting my time typing it out again.

I require my vote to let the union know in no uncertain terms that they do not represent my position agreeing to this deal.

I believe the majority of the membership feel the same way and this is why we're being denied a vote.

I don't need telling to vote no, I need the bleeding ballot so I can get on with it.

[sweepster70]

Roll over and take it, or stand up and fight it.
The choice is yours.
Me.... i will fight, but if its a yes vote i will accept it.
Then again theres no sign of a ballot paper yet.

I agree with your 3rd line. I'm voting yes, but if it's a no vote I will accept it and go along with whatever.
It's the one's who say they'll come out of the Union if it's a yes vote. We all have to go along with a majority decision, whether we like it or not.
Your 1st and 2nd lines are just bullshit, but you shouldn't be voting yes just because you've had enough of it all.

[aiden01]

The union know why this deal is unacceptable to a lot of us, I'm not wasting my time typing it out again.

I require my vote to let the union know in no uncertain terms that they do not represent my position agreeing to this deal.

I believe the majority of the membership feel the same way and this is why we're being denied a vote.

I don't need telling to vote no, I need the bleeding ballot so I can get on with it.

I need the ballot too so i can get a bleeding payrise to help with my bills not more f--king strike action.which personally don't think will happen people have had enough get the ballot out an vote either way get it over an done with.

[ihatedogs]

i am most definitely voting no, but my honest opinion, i think a yes vote will clinch it, but i wonder how many will cancel their union subs if a yes vote does clinch it?

Not many, all piss & wind imo.

[sweepster70]

i am most definitely voting no, but my honest opinion, i think a yes vote will clinch it, but i wonder how many will cancel their union subs if a yes vote does clinch it?

Not many, all piss & wind imo.

We all have to accept the majority decision. Why would anyone cancel their membership because of that?
I also believe it's a good move by the Union. I know it's hard for a few on here, but Royal Mail do need an agreement.

[redlen]

If any deal is accepted or rejected, then the majority vote carries and for the CWU negotiators to deal with and support that ballot result on behalf of the members.

And Royal Mail needs no agreement. Continued executive action with no rebuttal from the CWU besides more talk and endless joint statements confirms that:

[sweepster70]

If any deal is accepted or rejected, then the majority vote carries and for the CWU negotiators to deal with and support that ballot result on behalf of the members.

And Royal Mail needs no agreement. Continued executive action with no rebuttal from the CWU besides more talk and endless joint statements confirms that:

I disagree! The top of Royal Mail know, without an agreement they're Knackered. Simon Thompson tried it on and failed. Yes, he has walked away with a massive amount of money, but they always do.
The CWU are putting a lot of pressure on Royal Mail, it's just a shame a lot of people can't see it.