CWU Facebook: The employer has accepted the need for a joint statement and more importantly, a set of agreed actions on these issues.

[nuisance]

Plan b would start with new union leadership.

This lot encouraged us to strike over pay in the first place which has lead to the attack on our t&cs.
They fluffed up the rolling strikes.
They announced strikes then cancelled them demonstrating further chaos.
They chose to combine the ballots on industrial action linking any pay rise to "change" - ie, for the price of our t & cs.
Now they are thwarting the membership's right to vote and instruct them to stop accepting the piss-poor agreement they've made with RM.

You can't say what we've tried has failed because it has been so (deliberately?) badly done that we don't know what a smarter attempt could achieve.

[richj2009]

Off to collect my winnings from the bookie, joint statement within 6 months and here we go again ! ! Right then. Reverse the revision's, go fully staffed, 100% clearance every day, RM admitting they are wrong, CWU stopping the unagreed changes ha ha , would it be a benefit to let it go bust and ,(maybe) return with decent jobs ? with shareholders driven into hell. Don't fancy your chances tbh

Royal mail are currently telling the market we are chronically overstaffed

[pieoftheday]

So what do people propose to try to change Royal Mail's behaviour?

We've tried strikes.
We've tried rallies.
We've tried parliament.

Genuinely interested in what you guys see as a better plan, more of the above?

Woody, but that comes across as someone that's fed up with it all? Or you just cant see a good outcome no matter what?

[enskied]

Union have had enough time to come up with "Plan B"
I hope that's why they are stalling the ballot.

Plan A is not working.

Any "plan B" would depend entirely on Royal Mail's reaction to a rejection of this deal.

1) We don't know what that reaction might be.

2) We don't even know if the membership will reject the deal.

Under those circumstances and bearing in mind all of those who come up with the plans believe in the agreement as the best way forward who exactly do you believe is rooting around in the plan cupboard looking for B?

That's the danger, this goes south then everything is off the table and we go back to square one, this isn't a choice between plan A and plan B.

Noticed you didn't reply directly Woody.
You are correct, we do not know the reaction.
But the action is not acceptable.

[nuisance]

As far as I'm concerned, we never left square one.

Its only the union who have moved, and in the wrong direction.

[Woody Guthrie]

So what do people propose to try to change Royal Mail's behaviour?

We've tried strikes.
We've tried rallies.
We've tried parliament.

Genuinely interested in what you guys see as a better plan, more of the above?

Woody, but that comes across as someone that's fed up with it all? Or you just cant see a good outcome no matter what?

I'm both fed up with it and can't see a good outcome.
Agreeing to this deal is a poor outcome.
The outcome from rejecting the deal could range from..

1) Terrible, the complete implosion of the company and my job with it.

2) Very Bad, more stalemate, more money lost, Royal Mail just shrugs its shoulders and imposes most of the changes unilaterally, strikes are ineffective eventually forcing us to accept pretty much anything in return for a pay rise.

3) A slightly less poor deal, somehow the CWU gets its act together and Royal Mail are willing to offer some small concessions at a price.

I think in the present circumstances 1 and 3 are least likely and scenario 2 is the strong favourite.

[pieoftheday]

I do think the odd days of strikes were pointless, a full week to start with would have been my preference, but we are where we are

[Jb1969]

So what do people propose to try to change Royal Mail's behaviour?

We've tried strikes.
We've tried rallies.
We've tried parliament.

Genuinely interested in what you guys see as a better plan, more of the above?

Woody, but that comes across as someone that's fed up with it all? Or you just cant see a good outcome no matter what?

I'm both fed up with it and can't see a good outcome.
Agreeing to this deal is a poor outcome.
The outcome from rejecting the deal could range from..

1) Terrible, the complete implosion of the company and my job with it.

2) Very Bad, more stalemate, more money lost, Royal Mail just shrugs its shoulders and imposes most of the changes unilaterally, strikes are ineffective eventually forcing us to accept pretty much anything in return for a pay rise.

3) A slightly less poor deal, somehow the CWU gets its act together and Royal Mail are willing to offer some small concessions at a price.

I think in the present circumstances 1 and 3 are least likely and scenario 2 is the strong favourite.

A honest reply, most will respect that I hope.
RM are NOT going to employ more staff, they will be waiting for the USO to reduce to 5 days.
At best Casual labour will be increased.
Delivery’s will not be changed, the fine Ofcom gives RM will not be sufficient to change the current direction.
Simon Thompson leaving changes nothing, he was just a puppet for the board.
RM will be nothing more than a money making machine for shareholders & the board.
As I have said before, the UK is now owned by foreign investors which retiring members of parliament strangely find themselves employed by!

[Shadedpostie]

If you told me a year ago we will almost be in the exact same position for 16 months I'd laugh my ass off and tell you you're be talking s**t. And yet here we are, still at ground zero a lot worse off with yet another joint statement trying to get the company to sort the revisions out despite 1.That's what the original Joint Statement was about around end of Feb-early March and 2.You have an agreement and spent weeks on social media saying that the agreement will cover this. The company simply doesn't give a s**t about the union or it's workers and this just gives them more time to continue with their changes.

Doesn't matter whether it's a zoom call with all the reps or managers, soon as that laptop closes the higher ups are telling the managers to press on. Might have fooled the union in believing it's only some of the "rogue managers" acting up, but where the hell do you think they are getting their orders from? If senior management were that set on getting this deal through and restoring the USO, they'd air themselves saying all executive actions will cease effective immediately and anyone going against that will be dealt with. And also, the revisions imposed will be looked over.

Don't think the union is being honest with how long exactly this will actually take neither since the company been going at this for few years during COVID to now. The original deadline they set during the talks early of the year was laughable and don't think not one person believed all of this would have been resolved within weeks. The union's main problem is that they are not being as honest as they think they are and that's why the majority are pissed off with them for this. It's going to bite them in the ass, and think the vote (whenever that comes) will be a lot closer than people realise. The only thing is where the hell do you go with a company that just doesn't give too sh***s about one aspect of the company and a trade union that no longer wants to fight anymore??

[enskied]

Union have had enough time to come up with "Plan B"
I hope that's why they are stalling the ballot.

Plan A is not working.

Any "plan B" would depend entirely on Royal Mail's reaction to a rejection of this deal.

1) We don't know what that reaction might be.

2) We don't even know if the membership will reject the deal.

Under those circumstances and bearing in mind all of those who come up with the plans believe in the agreement as the best way forward who exactly do you believe is rooting around in the plan cupboard looking for B?

That's the danger, this goes south then everything is off the table and we go back to square one, this isn't a choice between plan A and plan B.

Noticed you didn't reply directly Woody.
You are correct, we do not know the reaction.
But the action is not acceptable.

You cut and paste like a Daily mail reporter.

[Woody Guthrie]

I do that because I reply to a position not an individual.
It's an attempt to avoid things appearing personal or encouraging a pile on mentality.
Both of those things are far too common on social media.
I'm sorry if it upsets you.

[scotchy1962]

Reading through everything the only conclusion we can all accept is that RM dont care what we do, even with a yes vote, they are going to ignore or at best give lip service to the union and us.
Solution = Treat them like they treat us.
Ignore all attempts at interaction.
Use everything legal to create as toxic a atmosphere for them as it is for us.
The union have a legal team, make them earn their money.
Every little loophole challenge it, be a pain in the arse.
It works both ways and us workers still have legal rights that RM cant break.
I know that the fear of losing jobs is a big factor, i am not one to say "burn it, burn it all" but is what they have in mind for you in anyway acceptable.
Not to me, nor you i would hope, sometimes a job like they want isnt worth having.

[LouBarlow]

So what do people propose to try to change Royal Mail's behaviour?

We've tried strikes.
We've tried rallies.
We've tried parliament.

Genuinely interested in what you guys see as a better plan, more of the above?

I’ve been asking them for weeks Woody. They never have a coherent response apart from abuse because secretly they know what will happen if this agreement isn’t voted through because RM and the CWU have been clear about it. They like to think they know better than our employer, our union leaders and the PEC for, well, reasons.

[norris9]

The revisions won't be changed because Royal Mail had to do such a thing to make up for losing £1million a day. As well as the revisions they have massively understaffed us, making savings on employment costs.

I can't see Royal Mail backtracking. There are also trials going on to reduce indoor time. I am not sure why they believe their plans will reduce indoor time by only 20 minutes. They will apparently have everything sequenced for us = no time sorting mail whatsoever....

So, if those trials are successful, they may make up somewhat for the ridiculous revisions.


Let us vote, I want to move on, I want the 10% pay rise and the lump sum(s). GET ON WITH IT!

Anyone that thinks Royal Mail will stick to any agreement is deluded. They have already ran a train through the CWU. Let's at least get a pay rise and if the job starts to suck too much in future - then we leave.

[SpacePhoenix]

They will apparently have everything sequenced for us = no time sorting mail whatsoever....

To do that they'll need to spend millions on buying new machines, and it would likely involve later start times in DOs to allow for it to happen