Vote on whether we should vote

[Poppyellie69]

Kretinsky stated in yesterday's times he has no intention to separate rm n gls,he wants 2 profitable companies so if rm could offer 1500 n 2 per cent,that 1500 is still there and in my opinion will be offered plus the 6 per cent to get the deal over the line,also no chance of administration that man's net worth is 7.2 billion

[Martin Walsh]

He also stated that he is not interested in buying our Royal Mail he wants to remain an investor.

VESA is the only company investing in Royal Mail so he is like a gambler who is all in , he has to keep trying to prop up the share price almost on his own.

Administration was and is still a real threat.

Any company that has lost 419 million , has downgraded the value of the company is in a serious position.

It had to have a business plan , that business plan is now covered in the agreement, for Royal Mail there is significant value of having an agreement as whilst the business plan aspirations have changed and been reduced there is an expectation that with agreement more of the business plan will be achieved.

The analysts and auditors signed of the business as a going concern as it had an agreement in place.

If there is no agreement Royal Mail are still legally obligated to introduce their cost reduction business plan to attempt to remain a going concern. However this time without the agreement and more likely largely based on their original savings expectations without the changes achieved via negotiation.

[zz666]

Cwu has weakened it's position by negotiating on the face of it a poor agreement. The union signed up to 3 years of revisions,(using weighed average nonsense), and where that has got us.
Be careful union what you sign up to.

[Poppyellie69]

Fully agree Martin but rm shouldn't have dangled a 1500 carrot in one of their options,personally I prefer consolidated pay however most of my colleagues preferred the bigger lump sum in today's climate,but surely if they paid the larger lump sum to get the deal signed off they would quickly recoup it with the new terms and conditions

[norris9]

Just go to a 5 day letter service FFS.

What's the point in having a 6 day delivery of bills and junk mail and magazines. We are literally running a 5 day service out of our office anyway as we have no day-off cover and no annual leave cover either.

Push through the 5 day service. I am not even convinced that will result in that many job losses as I am sure a hell of a lot of offices are currently massively understaffed.

My only concern is, if Royal Mail got the green light to go to a 5 day service, then knowing them, they'd run a 4 day service.

If the government don't allow a 5 day service, then they need to subsidise this sinking ship before it collapses.

If the government don't want to subsidise it, then why can't Royal Mail charge every household in the country £10 a year to subsidise it themselves. That would equate to £250 million. £10 a year isn't that much for a household to pay to get the 6 day service. We have the BBC charging us £15 a month and a lot of us don't even watch their channels.

[redlen]

What you are proposing is subsidising share holder dividends

[worktotime]

He also stated that he is not interested in buying our Royal Mail he wants to remain an investor.

VESA is the only company investing in Royal Mail so he is like a gambler who is all in , he has to keep trying to prop up the share price almost on his own.

Administration was and is still a real threat.

Any company that has lost 419 million , has downgraded the value of the company is in a serious position.

It had to have a business plan , that business plan is now covered in the agreement, for Royal Mail there is significant value of having an agreement as whilst the business plan aspirations have changed and been reduced there is an expectation that with agreement more of the business plan will be achieved.

The analysts and auditors signed of the business as a going concern as it had an agreement in place.

If there is no agreement Royal Mail are still legally obligated to introduce their cost reduction business plan to attempt to remain a going concern. However this time without the agreement and more likely largely based on their original savings expectations without the changes achieved via negotiation.

stop scaremongering about the company going down the pan as we all know the goverment can not let it , yes and your agreement is just a watered down version of what they wanted , and that business and your agreement plan was being done while we the staff was telling the cwu what was going on in delivery office e/a revisions etc and what did you to stop it ? NOTHING ,and now it matters and thats why you have suspended the ballot , and like you say the company will do what they want anyway so let them crack on with it and it would be lucky to last a month without taking the staff along with them .

[stevejm]

He also stated that he is not interested in buying our Royal Mail he wants to remain an investor.

VESA is the only company investing in Royal Mail so he is like a gambler who is all in , he has to keep trying to prop up the share price almost on his own.

Administration was and is still a real threat.

Any company that has lost 419 million , has downgraded the value of the company is in a serious position.

It had to have a business plan , that business plan is now covered in the agreement, for Royal Mail there is significant value of having an agreement as whilst the business plan aspirations have changed and been reduced there is an expectation that with agreement more of the business plan will be achieved.

The analysts and auditors signed of the business as a going concern as it had an agreement in place.

If there is no agreement Royal Mail are still legally obligated to introduce their cost reduction business plan to attempt to remain a going concern. However this time without the agreement and more likely largely based on their original savings expectations without the changes achieved via negotiation.

So, Martin, the bold being true (?), why is the CWU not letting us vote on the agreement?

This makes no sense at all if we are to take the CWU at their word. On the one hand RM and CWU declare that the company is in a terrible financial state. The CWU proudly announces that they have curtailed RM from introducing changes that would virtually wipe out out T&Cs. Now that agreement needsto be ratified by the membership. But it can't be because RM are misbehaving and must behave before the CWU allows the membership the chance to approve the agreement.

By holding out for R.M to 'behave itself' the CWU risks RM declaring that they can't wait any longer and that the negotiated agreement is now null and void - and introducing those worse changes that you infer without the negotiated agreement in place.

A/ Well does the CWU believe that RM is in danger of becoming insolvent? If so, what are the CWU playing at knowing that RM are in such an urgent and serious financial position that they can't wait weeks and months for us to vote on the agreement and are likely to impose change to the detriment of all postal workers.

B/ Or does the CWU know that the financial position is not as bad as stated and therefore there is time to seek corrective changes to RM local operating policy ie abuses?

It can't be both. A/ or B/ ?

I

[stevejm]

He also stated that he is not interested in buying our Royal Mail he wants to remain an investor.

VESA is the only company investing in Royal Mail so he is like a gambler who is all in , he has to keep trying to prop up the share price almost on his own.

Administration was and is still a real threat.

Any company that has lost 419 million , has downgraded the value of the company is in a serious position.

It had to have a business plan , that business plan is now covered in the agreement, for Royal Mail there is significant value of having an agreement as whilst the business plan aspirations have changed and been reduced there is an expectation that with agreement more of the business plan will be achieved.

The analysts and auditors signed of the business as a going concern as it had an agreement in place.

If there is no agreement Royal Mail are still legally obligated to introduce their cost reduction business plan to attempt to remain a going concern. However this time without the agreement and more likely largely based on their original savings expectations without the changes achieved via negotiation.

So, Martin, the bold being true (?), why is the CWU not letting us vote on the agreement?

This makes no sense at all if we are to take the CWU at their word. On the one hand RM and CWU declare that the company is in a terrible financial state. The CWU proudly announces that they have curtailed RM from introducing changes that would virtually wipe out our T&Cs. Now that agreement needs to be ratified by the membership. But it can't be because RM are 'misbehaving' and must 'behave' before the CWU allows the membership the chance to approve the agreement.

By holding out for R.M to 'behave itself' the CWU risks RM declaring that they can't wait any longer and that the negotiated agreement is now null and void - and RM then introduces those worse changes that you yourself state will happen without the negotiated agreement in place.

A/ Well does the CWU believe that RM is in danger of becoming insolvent? If so, what are the CWU playing at knowing that RM are in such an urgent and serious financial position that they can't wait weeks and months for us to vote on the agreement and are likely to impose change to the detriment of all postal workers.

B/ Or does the CWU know that the financial position is not as bad as stated and therefore there is time to seek corrective changes to RM local operating policy ie abuses?

It can't be both. A/ or B/ ?

[stevejm]

He also stated that he is not interested in buying our Royal Mail he wants to remain an investor.

VESA is the only company investing in Royal Mail so he is like a gambler who is all in , he has to keep trying to prop up the share price almost on his own.

Administration was and is still a real threat.

Any company that has lost 419 million , has downgraded the value of the company is in a serious position.

It had to have a business plan , that business plan is now covered in the agreement, for Royal Mail there is significant value of having an agreement as whilst the business plan aspirations have changed and been reduced there is an expectation that with agreement more of the business plan will be achieved.

The analysts and auditors signed of the business as a going concern as it had an agreement in place.

If there is no agreement Royal Mail are still legally obligated to introduce their cost reduction business plan to attempt to remain a going concern. However this time without the agreement and more likely largely based on their original savings expectations without the changes achieved via negotiation.

So, Martin, the bold being true (?), why is the CWU not letting us vote on the agreement?

This makes no sense at all if we are to take the CWU at their word. On the one hand RM and CWU declare that the company is in a terrible financial state. The CWU proudly announces that they have curtailed RM from introducing changes that would virtually wipe out our T&Cs. Now that agreement needs to be ratified by the membership. But it can't be because RM are 'misbehaving' and must 'behave' before the CWU allows the membership the chance to approve the agreement.

By holding out for R.M to 'behave itself' the CWU risks RM declaring that they can't wait any longer and that the negotiated agreement is now null and void - and RM then introduces those worse changes that you yourself state will happen without the negotiated agreement in place.

A/ Well does the CWU believe that RM is in danger of becoming insolvent? If so, what are the CWU playing at knowing that RM are in such an urgent and serious financial position that they can't wait weeks and months for us to vote on the agreement and are likely to impose change to the detriment of all postal workers.

B/ Or does the CWU know that the financial position is not as bad as stated and therefore there is time to seek corrective changes to RM local operating policy ie abuses?

It can't be both. A/ or B/ ?

[stevejm]

apologies multiple posts, was trying to edit the first one - apparently you can't delete them

[Martin Walsh]

Work to time the Government only responsibility under the postal services act is to ensure the USO in its purest form is protected. That means a delivery of first and second class items which are covered by the USO.

All other streams of mail which currently get delivered by going out on the core would not be covered. The moment the government used public money to deliver parcels it would be classed as anti competitive and would be taken to court by the like Evry , DPD and Amazon.

Don’t you think we all checked all of this ? We would have lost thousands upon thousands of jobs from day one from it going into administration. Do you think any union should play Russian roulette with our members jobs ? Do you think if we had not have done the agreement and ended in that place our members would have been far more outraged.

[Martin Walsh]

Steve Jim the reason the ballot has been paused and the only reason is that we have an agreement which clearly states no more executive action , the use of the IR framework and joint working and yet we have plenty of examples where this is not the case in units or areas.

We want the company to pull in line these managers and we want them to be committed to resolving imposed revisions and quality of services including where recruitment is needed.

We also want a pause on any further revisions until the all the above has been done and review of productivity has taken place including DPRs.

There is a meeting tomorrow with our officers and Royal Mail over this.

If the commitments are not achieved then the Postal Executive are meeting Wednesday.

[clashcityrocker]

apologies multiple posts, was trying to edit the first one - apparently you can't delete them

Yes you can.
After you have submitted there are little icons top right to report, edit or delete your post.

[chrisj]

The USO needs to diluted for everyone's sake; and the Union should stop their two-faced approach to the problems the so-called purest form of USO is causing RM and it's profitability esp on the letter side.

Stop bashing RM about QOS to serve your own purpose, concentrate on the bigger picture. There will be minimal job losses from 5 day letter service and less pressure on RM, their managers and staff, esp delivery staff. And less fines and investigation from OFCOM.

Get the votes sorted if you really believe on the agreement - no more distractions and red-herring...