How we Square the circle

[Nickvilla20]

The problem we have is that we are dealing with a completely different employer than we were 5 years ago. A reduction in the USO is inevitable which also means a reduction in staff if you are only doing parcels on a Saturday then you can have another big reduction in staff.

People have different opinions on the deal personally much of it doesn’t affect me to much but for others it has real implications at least what a deal does do is give us job security without a deal your constantly in limbo.

Biggest problem I’m seeing on here is that we all want to do a good job and clear everyday the difference been now is that the company aren’t really interested in us doing that nor is the regulator.

[Nickvilla20]

You don't vote yes, just because you're fed up with it all.

IMHO, I think some will. It kind of comes down to...

I like the deal...vote YES.

I think the deal is the best we’ll get...vote YES.

Don’t judge me, but right now my head hurts and I’m truly fed up of the fighting...vote YES.

I dislike the deal and really cannot get behind it...vote NO.

I want a better deal...while I may not get it, I’m sticking to my guns and...vote NO.

I want to show RM (and the CWU) I will not be bossed about nor will "go gentle into that good night"...vote NO.

I still have some fight in me and prepared to wait things out...vote NO.

Our personal decision – if or when there is a vote – will probably come down to our attitude at that time… optimist, pessimist, realist, idealist, pragmatist, defeatist, or even fatalist etc. We are probably all bouncing between these positions daily or weekly at the moment, and hence why some are mentally tired and reaching the point of being fed up - I can understand that.

Good post I think you’ve summed most of the situation up really. I don’t think many will make their minds up until they have a ballot paper front of them.

[LouBarlow]

That's not a deal that's a poor pay rise and a pathetic bribe to start signing all your rights away for the sake of a few hundred quid a year id rather keep my t's and c's

You aren’t going to keep your terms and conditions. People need to move on from this line of thinking. Even the union realise this. You turn around and vote out the agreement - what happens then? The union returned the biggest vote for strike action ever, and then instead of striking, they came up with this agreement.

Why do you think that is?

[toonshola]

That's not a deal that's a poor pay rise and a pathetic bribe to start signing all your rights away for the sake of a few hundred quid a year id rather keep my t's and c's

You aren’t going to keep your terms and conditions. People need to move on from this line of thinking. Even the union realise this. You turn around and vote out the agreement - what happens then? The union returned the biggest vote for strike action ever, and then instead of striking, they came up with this agreement.

Why do you think that is?

Because RM agreed to the continuation on release time for the lazy high up union reps and subs being taken from wages still. It’s all been about these two issues and we have all been thrown under the bus for it. Dave Ward will be retiring after this deal is done and laughing all the way to the bank on his fat pension.

[SpacePhoenix]

It can't get any worse so anything is better,even if we dont get anything we have lost nothing,if the union dont step up with this dispute

But it can get worse. With no agreement in place, they have carte blanche to bring in all the changes they want and then some. And you lose your pay improvement and lump sum. And the union have stepped up - it is their deal as much as RM’s.

I think that even with a yes vote RM will probably bring in all the changes they want anyway via EA and I've big doubts over whether they'd even take any notice of the union

[Martin Walsh]

Space why did they spend months try to reach an agreement if they were simply going to impose all the change including committing to no further mail centre closures for the lifespan of the agreement. When they wanted to close 5 mail centres and the project leads had signed Non disclosure agreements.

The board know that the only way this company survives is if there is an agreement and the change is jointly delivered.

The delay in the ballot is that there are still some managers who have been let off the leash to do what they wanted do like the agreement and are trying to sabotage it by their continue refusal to resolve revisions and quality of service.

This need to be resolved.

Anyone voting yes or no should be crystal clear when doing so that the company cannot survive without Change and cost reduction.

The agreement agrees change but based on removing or modifying the impacts of the change.

A no vote will still result in change , the question is will it be agreed change , imposed change and will the company based on a no vote have to make a statement on their expected finances Which would be beyond serious.

[Dorset Plodder]

IMHO, I think some will. It kind of comes down to...

Good Post ruckus

I think a lot of people are still undecided. However I don't think the same old posters beating the same old drum are going to convince them either way.

I like the title of the subject because I think that's the nub of the problem ... for decades Royal Mail have been trying to hammer a SQUARE Peg into a ROUND hole .... and still are!

[pieoftheday]

Space why did they spend months try to reach an agreement if they were simply going to impose all the change including committing to no further mail centre closures for the lifespan of the agreement. When they wanted to close 5 mail centres and the project leads had signed Non disclosure agreements.

The board know that the only way this company survives is if there is an agreement and the change is jointly delivered.

The delay in the ballot is that there are still some managers who have been let off the leash to do what they wanted do like the agreement and are trying to sabotage it by their continue refusal to resolve revisions and quality of service.

This need to be resolved.

Anyone voting yes or no should be crystal clear when doing so that the company cannot survive without Change and cost reduction.

The agreement agrees change but based on removing or modifying the impacts of the change.

A no vote will still result in change , the question is will it be agreed change , imposed change and will the company based on a no vote have to make a statement on their expected finances Which would be beyond serious.

No need for start finish times to change, keep sick as is,seasonal variation nonsense. I can see 5day letters makes sense eventually, there you go it's a yes from me

[SpacePhoenix]

Space why did they spend months try to reach an agreement if they were simply going to impose all the change including committing to no further mail centre closures for the lifespan of the agreement. When they wanted to close 5 mail centres and the project leads had signed Non disclosure agreements.

The board know that the only way this company survives is if there is an agreement and the change is jointly delivered.

I don't trust them to stick to the agreement. Frankly unless it's legally binding with no wiggle room for RM to wriggle their way out ot it, it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

No need for start finish times to change,

If Skynet does get axed, which I believe it starts to very soon, then the work will arrive in inward MCs later and so be processed later and head out to DOs later, with the added time on the top of that from the lorries to the DOs getting caught in traffic

[Basildon Bond]

IMHO, I think some will. It kind of comes down to...

Good Post ruckus

I think a lot of people are still undecided. However I don't think the same old posters beating the same old drum are going to convince them either way.

I like the title of the subject because I think that's the nub of the problem ... for decades Royal Mail have been trying to hammer a SQUARE Peg into a ROUND hole .... and still are!

But what should change? The peg, the hole, or both?

[Acca Dacca]

Space why did they spend months try to reach an agreement if they were simply going to impose all the change including committing to no further mail centre closures for the lifespan of the agreement. When they wanted to close 5 mail centres and the project leads had signed Non disclosure agreements.

The board know that the only way this company survives is if there is an agreement and the change is jointly delivered.

The delay in the ballot is that there are still some managers who have been let off the leash to do what they wanted do like the agreement and are trying to sabotage it by their continue refusal to resolve revisions and quality of service.

This need to be resolved.

Anyone voting yes or no should be crystal clear when doing so that the company cannot survive without Change and cost reduction.

The agreement agrees change but based on removing or modifying the impacts of the change.

A no vote will still result in change , the question is will it be agreed change , imposed change and will the company based on a no vote have to make a statement on their expected finances Which would be beyond serious.

Can you explain how RM can impose changes to our sick terms and imposing annualised hours, or seasonal variation as that’s being named, without agreement and without having us sign a new contract I.e fire and rehire which leaves them open to unfair dismissal claims

[LouBarlow]

Space why did they spend months try to reach an agreement if they were simply going to impose all the change including committing to no further mail centre closures for the lifespan of the agreement. When they wanted to close 5 mail centres and the project leads had signed Non disclosure agreements.

The board know that the only way this company survives is if there is an agreement and the change is jointly delivered.

I don't trust them to stick to the agreement. Frankly unless it's legally binding with no wiggle room for RM to wriggle their way out ot it, it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

No need for start finish times to change,

If Skynet does get axed, which I believe it starts to very soon, then the work will arrive in inward MCs later and so be processed later and head out to DOs later, with the added time on the top of that from the lorries to the DOs getting caught in traffic

The whole point of an agreement is it is legally binding. They aren’t going to base these changes on a gentlemen’s agreement. It will all be down on paper, in effect contractually binding in fact.

[Dorset Plodder]

If Skynet does get axed, which I believe it starts to very soon, then the work will arrive in inward MCs later and so be processed later and head out to DOs later, with the added time on the top of that from the lorries to the DOs getting caught in traffic

We were told during briefings that 95% of the mail was in Mail Centres by 0530. The CWU was looking for ways to get that mail out to the DOs earlier to mitigate the later start times, only needing to sort the later 5% with perhaps a later mail run that could be thrown off just before deliveries start.

[Dorset Plodder]

But what should change? The peg, the hole, or both?

I suppose that's what every Agreement and Revision should have been about going back years?

As we know Management have always had their idea of how a job should be done and have very rarely co-operated with the guys on the ground to see if it could be done more logically. All they're interested in is looking at their Bloody Lap Tops, Checking Spread Sheets to see if the figures match up, so they can tick their boxes .... and get their Bonuses. They're as guilty as Higher Management of Fcuking the Business up for their own monetary gain!

The latest Revisions are a Prime Example: We've got Duties now trying to exit Housing Estates during the Rush Hour .... No Chance .... and arriving later at their original duty start points... LATE .... to clash with the school run. And the COM wants to know why it's taking longer to get going .... these kind of practical problems don't show up on his Lap Top so he's totally out of his depth!

[SpacePhoenix]

If Skynet does get axed, which I believe it starts to very soon, then the work will arrive in inward MCs later and so be processed later and head out to DOs later, with the added time on the top of that from the lorries to the DOs getting caught in traffic

We were told during briefings that 95% of the mail was in Mail Centres by 0530. The CWU was looking for ways to get that mail out to the DOs earlier to mitigate the later start times, only needing to sort the later 5% with perhaps a later mail run that could be thrown off just before deliveries start.

DOs will have to send vans to collect that 5% as we done away with wave 3 a good few years ago. There's no way that any MC will send out a 600 for such a small amount of mail. Once wave 2 goes out, the MC gets set up for 2C and Tracked 48. Anything that arrives after wave 2 has gone is failed. Sometimes earlies or lates do some of it but it'd go out too late for DOs.

I can't see any of the RDC -> RDC and RDC -> MC runs keeping their current times. RM is bound to want to get some of the former Skynet work on the later runs