Vote of no confidence

[k979aaa]

What deal is this? The one we haven’t even voted on yet? That is what happens without an agreement - change is bulldozed in unopposed, which will happen if an agreement isn’t voted through soon.

What I'm concerned with regarding the agreement is this. Let's say your depot has 'provisionally' agreed a later finish time of 15.30 but Royal Mail have agreed with the CWU nationally that last letter delivery time is 16.30. Does that mean at some point in the future RM can push that depot back more easily to 16.30 because that is what the CWU agreed as part of the wider deal?

If the Union didn't agree to any of this it's far harder for RM to try and implement any of it and the same goes for the sick policy. RM can impose what they want, whenever they want regardless of an agreement or not. It's up to the union to either make a stand or become weaker and ineffectual.

Way I see it is this you should all be told your times before the vote after the vote there should be no other change than that which was voted on!

[LouBarlow]

What I'm concerned with regarding the agreement is this. Let's say your depot has 'provisionally' agreed a later finish time of 15.30 but Royal Mail have agreed with the CWU nationally that last letter delivery time is 16.30. Does that mean at some point in the future RM can push that depot back more easily to 16.30 because that is what the CWU agreed as part of the wider deal?

If the Union didn't agree to any of this it's far harder for RM to try and implement any of it and the same goes for the sick policy. RM can impose what they want, whenever they want regardless of an agreement or not. It's up to the union to either make a stand or become weaker and ineffectual.

I don’t understand. You are claiming RM are reneging on a deal we haven’t even voted on yet, then in the same post claiming they will do what they like, if we vote in the deal? Why are you voting no then?

[TopperGas]

If they give your DO a 3:30pm finishing time I can't see it changing, as otherwise the one further down the line finishing at 4:30pm would then have to move to 5:30pm.

[k979aaa]

If they give your DO a 3:30pm finishing time I can't see it changing, as otherwise the one further down the line finishing at 4:30pm would then have to move to 5:30pm.

The reason the ballot was suspended was clarification of this issue and till you all get it how the bloody hell can you vote on it!

[Seymour Buts]

Yeah, splitting the union seems a great idea. End up like teachers and nurses, where as you've got all different union's, some of which have accepted the deal and others which haven't. So it's all just a mess and ineffective because you've got certain people on strike and not others. No union is perfect, but ultimately the CWU in my opinion has tried to do what's best. Ultimately though, there's only so much they can do.

[k979aaa]

In a word i agree

[postslippete]

I don’t understand. You are claiming RM are reneging on a deal we haven’t even voted on yet, then in the same post claiming they will do what they like, if we vote in the deal? Why are you voting no then?

The Union have put the ballot back on the negotiators agreement until it was satisfied that RM have stopped the attacks against union members in the workplace. This suggests to me that it really doesn't matter which way the vote will go as the company will continue doing what it wants regardless.

However....certain aspects of the deal especially regarding contractual changes and sick pay probably need some sort of an agreement so that it is more legally binding. Could any company really force its employees to work more hours for the same pay and radically alter your working hours negatively affecting peoples work-life balance? Sure, RM could try and impose these - but they might come unstuck later. My biggest fear is that once these changes take place we are just spiralling downwards in a race for the bottom towards the gig economy of a low paid workforce on reduced terms and conditions. It's not unfeasible that the company would see this a victory and propose for the workforce to work even more hours sometime in the future, with no loss in pay obviously.

Nearly everyone I have spoken to has said that this is a crap deal and for me I really don't believe that the company are going bust anytime soon. That is very significant. There are a select few who believe everything that RM and the CWU have told them and can't see the woods for the trees, but that's up to them. Do you really believe that this is the best deal on the table?

[Seymour Buts]

I don’t understand. You are claiming RM are reneging on a deal we haven’t even voted on yet, then in the same post claiming they will do what they like, if we vote in the deal? Why are you voting no then?

The Union have put the ballot back on the negotiators agreement until it was satisfied that RM have stopped the attacks against union members in the workplace. This suggests to me that it really doesn't matter which way the vote will go as the company will continue doing what it wants regardless.

However....certain aspects of the deal especially regarding contractual changes and sick pay probably need some sort of an agreement so that it is more legally binding. Could any company really force its employees to work more hours for the same pay and radically alter your working hours negatively affecting peoples work-life balance? Sure, RM could try and impose these - but they might come unstuck later. My biggest fear is that once these changes take place we are just spiralling downwards in a race for the bottom towards the gig economy of a low paid workforce on reduced terms and conditions. It's not unfeasible that the company would see this a victory and propose for the workforce to work even more hours sometime in the future, with no loss in pay obviously.

Nearly everyone I have spoken to has said that this is a crap deal and for me I really don't believe that the company are going bust anytime soon. That is very significant. There are a select few who believe everything that RM and the CWU have told them and can't see the woods for the trees, but that's up to them. Do you really believe that this is the best deal on the table?

Why would the CWU take the company line on finances? You either believe in some conspiracy that the company, and union are lying, or maybe things are as bad as both claim. Fair enough it's in the companies interest to plead poverty when negotiating pay, but don't see why the union would take the same line if it wasn't true.

[k979aaa]

This whole company is run by self serving bastards till you know it you will never comprehend it service to them is where is my gin and tonic.
Till you all realize this your behind the game a customer is the sender not the receiver and reward is a dividend and we have a deal is we think people will vote for this as it is the least worst option! It is NOT we agree with it but is the only sane option don't shoot my feet off for the sake of unity. AS to RM they will reap what they sow and pay peanuts and get monkeys holds true.

[postslippete]

Why would the CWU take the company line on finances? You either believe in some conspiracy that the company, and union are lying, or maybe things are as bad as both claim. Fair enough it's in the companies interest to plead poverty when negotiating pay, but don't see why the union would take the same line if it wasn't true.

The Union are absolutely desperate to sell the agreement to its members. They are always between a rock and a hard place. They need an agreement and even though they know it's crap....they need something to justify why it's crap. There could be striking similarities between what is happening now to what has happened to BT

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/bt-replace-workers-ai/


In 2021, the CWU betrayed strike action by 40,000 call centre workers and engineers and instead recommended a below inflation pay deal to partner the company to deliver £500 million in efficiencies instead. Two years later and BT have just announced that 50,000 staff will be culled by 2030 (over 40% of its workforce) due to new technology and AI. A CWU spokesperson said “it’s imperative that we should be in the room discussing and shaping the new skills required of the workforce as they move to a more digital network… the company has agreed ongoing discussions with the CWU on these matters.”

However, BT announced its jobs massacre despite profits of £1.9 billion, citing a one-off tax break having masked a 12 percent decline in profits to £1.7 billion—a result still punishable by investors.



Just type in "I'm with your Union" on this agreement that will ensure your terms and cons are destroyed at the expense of the fat cats at the top of the food chain. Make of that what you will.

[k979aaa]

The whole world corrupt and the politicians and the world of the whole business and may I say the union and councils and mayors of the UK never tell the truth but we should vote them out!

[scotchy1962]

I hate all this posturing and claptrap, trying to bamboozle us with facts and figures, show some mettle, have the vote, if its YES there you go, if its NO get on with it.

This is hilarious. Yes Martin, stop giving us facts as we don’t like the truth round here.

Lou you really do try to annoy people, have you some sort of problem that causes this?
Maybe take some medical advice or sort out whatever it is missing in your life.
Heres a fact for you. We havent voted!!
If you hadnt cherry picked just part of the post perhaps the context wouldnt be lost.
Its obvious to anyone with sense that the union are stalling, i know it and you should know it, although maybe the sense thing has passed you by.
Stop stalling have your democratic vote and whatever way it falls we will all have to live with the result.
Cherry pick part of that!!

[Seymour Buts]

Why would the CWU take the company line on finances? You either believe in some conspiracy that the company, and union are lying, or maybe things are as bad as both claim. Fair enough it's in the companies interest to plead poverty when negotiating pay, but don't see why the union would take the same line if it wasn't true.

The Union are absolutely desperate to sell the agreement to its members. They are always between a rock and a hard place. They need an agreement and even though they know it's crap....they need something to justify why it's crap. There could be striking similarities between what is happening now to what has happened to BT

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/bt-replace-workers-ai/


In 2021, the CWU betrayed strike action by 40,000 call centre workers and engineers and instead recommended a below inflation pay deal to partner the company to deliver £500 million in efficiencies instead. Two years later and BT have just announced that 50,000 staff will be culled by 2030 (over 40% of its workforce) due to new technology and AI. A CWU spokesperson said “it’s imperative that we should be in the room discussing and shaping the new skills required of the workforce as they move to a more digital network… the company has agreed ongoing discussions with the CWU on these matters.”

However, BT announced its jobs massacre despite profits of £1.9 billion, citing a one-off tax break having masked a 12 percent decline in profits to £1.7 billion—a result still punishable by investors.



Just type in "I'm with your Union" on this agreement that will ensure your terms and cons are destroyed at the expense of the fat cats at the top of the food chain. Make of that what you will.

So why are the union between a rock and a half place? If everything was roset financially, they'd just continue striking until they get a deal people would actually vote for? Outside the echo chamber of this board, people will vote for this agreement as it has been endorsed by the union anyway in my opinion.

Jobs going because of advancements in technology is inevitable in every industry in this country. The union are right that it's far better that they're in the room.

[k979aaa]

I don't think that change is the issue here it is about how its done we all Know the changes are happening communication would bloody well help. And the fact that should be held that communication is not a one way street till these aspirations are meet how can one agree!

[LouBarlow]

Do you really believe that this is the best deal on the table?

I do yes. So do Royal Mail and the CWU. If both sides of negotiations agree that we have reached agreement, then that suggests there is no more give from either party.

Lou you really do try to annoy people, have you some sort of problem that causes this?
Maybe take some medical advice or sort out whatever it is missing in your life.
Heres a fact for you. We havent voted!!
If you hadnt cherry picked just part of the post perhaps the context wouldnt be lost.
Its obvious to anyone with sense that the union are stalling, i know it and you should know it, although maybe the sense thing has passed you by.
Stop stalling have your democratic vote and whatever way it falls we will all have to live with the result.
Cherry pick part of that!!

I’m not trying to annoy you. You are irritated because I made you look a bit daft. It happens.