Alternatives?

[Nickvilla20]

sadly the battle is lost

Perhaps our union negotiators need looking at? In other union roles, I'm less than impressed with Chris Webb's Facebook imput, the lawyers responsible for ensuring the legality of ballots and strikes cock up repeatedly, the organisation of the strike program could have been miles more targeted, etc, etc...

Maybe our negotiators are rubbish? Martin Walsh's comment about how when RM "made it clear" any pay rise had to be linked to change, they went "oh right then" and combined the ballots. It smacks of incompetence or deliberate side-swapping.

To me, in a fight, you try to advance but you sure as hell don't retreat or give up the position you're already in, which is what the union decision makers have done all along.

We need to actually fight and do it properly, minus the incompetence/ deliberate failings and inexplicable weakness.

It was said a while ago as soon as the union see the companies financial books their attitude would change.

I agree they have come across as amateurish at times especially the vote yes sign in the select committee meeting. I think the big turning point was when the rolling strikes were called off we was always on the back foot then.

[clashcityrocker]

To me, in a fight, you try to advance but you sure as hell don't retreat or give up the position you're already in,

You do if you think you are about to be annihilated.

[scotchy1962]

To me, in a fight, you try to advance but you sure as hell don't retreat or give up the position you're already in,

You do if you think you are about to be annihilated.

Surprised Clash at the lack of fight in the union. I had a discussion with my rep and he swapped from a No to a Yes after a discussion with Dave Ward.
I will not repeat his reasoning for the change and believe me i didnt change my mind based on what he told me.
Sometimes you have to stand your ground, even in the face of overwhelming odds, because all you are doing is delaying the inevitable showdown.
We might have reached that point. Just my 5d worth.

[aiden01]

To me, in a fight, you try to advance but you sure as hell don't retreat or give up the position you're already in,

You do if you think you are about to be annihilated.

Surprised Clash at the lack of fight in the union. I had a discussion with my rep and he swapped from a No to a Yes after a discussion with Dave Ward.
I will not repeat his reasoning for the change and believe me i didnt change my mind based on what he told me.
Sometimes you have to stand your ground, even in the face of overwhelming odds, because all you are doing is delaying the inevitable showdown.
We might have reached that point. Just my 5d worth.

Why not reveal his reasoning for changing nobody on here knows you.maybe dave convinced him its the only way forward.but alas not going to convince everybody.

[scotchy1962]

To me, in a fight, you try to advance but you sure as hell don't retreat or give up the position you're already in,

You do if you think you are about to be annihilated.

Surprised Clash at the lack of fight in the union. I had a discussion with my rep and he swapped from a No to a Yes after a discussion with Dave Ward.
I will not repeat his reasoning for the change and believe me i didnt change my mind based on what he told me.
Sometimes you have to stand your ground, even in the face of overwhelming odds, because all you are doing is delaying the inevitable showdown.
We might have reached that point. Just my 5d worth.

Why not reveal his reasoning for changing nobody on here knows you.maybe dave convinced him its the only way forward.but alas not going to convince everybody.

Aiden i know you love a good old stir and your repeated attempts to get some sort of alternative to this agreement out of little old me are getting boring, we dont agree, get over it, i dont have to give a alternative, you dont know what will happen if we vote No and lastly we are only voting on that piece of paper not what might or might not happen. So in answer to your request, no i wont as thats his conversation to share not mine.

[LouBarlow]

I think you’ve made it up to be honest.

[Woody Guthrie]

Sometimes you have to stand your ground, even in the face of overwhelming odds, because all you are doing is delaying the inevitable showdown.

Sometimes if the outcome is mutually assured destruction you have to understand that the lives in your hands are not yours to sacrifice.

At this point in the proceedings there's a way out on the table, it might not be a very palatable way out for you or me but we don't speak for the membership. The members will hopefully soon have the chance to speak for themselves.

What worries me is not those that understand how badly this could go but still feel compelled to vote no, it's actually that many of those who are making the most noise against this agreement seem to have no idea or interest in the consequences.

"It's all just scaremongering" seems to have become a valid argument in everything these days rather than what it really is which is just an inability to make a coherent argument against the point.

One of the dumbest quotes you'll see is that it's better to die on your feet than live on your knees, it really isn't.

You can always get up off your knees, you can't come back from the dead.

[LouBarlow]

Since Covid wild conspiracy theories have been hammered into people’s heads with such frequency that they will choose to believe them over hard, cold, empirical fact.

You have Royal Mail telling you the consequences of voting no. You have the opposing party in the dispute, the CWU, telling you the exact same thing, backed up by the PEC.

Yet people here are just shooing these facts away and believing it is all some big collusion. It isn’t that difficult to grasp. No matter how much accounting gymnastics RM have performed the truth is in the numbers. This company is f****d if it continues down the path it is on. Things need to change and they will irrespective of the vote. At least with a yes we will still maintain a small amount of control. With a no all bets are off.

[nuisance]

Sometimes you have to stand your ground, even in the face of overwhelming odds, because all you are doing is delaying the inevitable showdown.

At this point in the proceedings there's a way out on the table,

Accepting all the things that are unacceptable is not an acceptable way out. It is surrendering to the attacks when we've barely put up a fight. We know the consequences of voting yes and they're all sh!te so it doesn't really matter if the consequences of voting no are sh!te, does it? That way, at least they'd be sh!te for RM and not just for us like you want us to opt for.

[Nickvilla20]

Since Covid wild conspiracy theories have been hammered into people’s heads with such frequency that they will choose to believe them over hard, cold, empirical fact.

You have Royal Mail telling you the consequences of voting no. You have the opposing party in the dispute, the CWU, telling you the exact same thing, backed up by the PEC.

Yet people here are just shooing these facts away and believing it is all some big collusion. It isn’t that difficult to grasp. No matter how much accounting gymnastics RM have performed the truth is in the numbers. This company is f****d if it continues down the path it is on. Things need to change and they will irrespective of the vote. At least with a yes we will still maintain a small amount of control. With a no all bets are off.

I think Royal Mail probably want a no vote. Would mean no payrise, no job protections and a union which is dead in the water.

Like you I’m not happy with the situation but I would rather have a payrise and job security. I’m in the south east and I’ve been looking at alternative employment and it is there but it’s lower paid and worse T&Cs.

When you are completing against other companies who are basically paying below minimum wage you have to make yourself competitive and sadly it’s usually to the detriment of its staff.

In the end it’s still a decent enough job sadly not the job it once was.

[Nickvilla20]

Accepting all the things that are unacceptable is not an acceptable way out. It is surrendering to the attacks when we've barely put up a fight. We know the consequences of voting yes and they're all sh!te so it doesn't really matter if the consequences of voting no are sh!te, does it? That way, at least they'd be sh!te for RM and not just for us like you want us to opt for.

We were on strike for 18 days what more could have done?

What do you suggest we do now?

[nuisance]

We were on strike for 18 days what more could have done?

What do you suggest we do now?

Longer strikes at key times. No one or even two day strikes. Every week following bank holidays. Election run ups. All December.

Also, I don't know how feasible it is, but an official work to rule hasn't been tried yet either.

[jahbalon]

We were on strike for 18 days what more could have done?

What do you suggest we do now?

Longer strikes at key times. No one or even two day strikes. Every week following bank holidays. Election run ups. All December.

Also, I don't know how feasible it is, but an official work to rule hasn't been tried yet either.

That's crazy talk. No one wants any more strikes or work to rule.
Mutual destruction guaranteed.

[Nickvilla20]

We were on strike for 18 days what more could have done?

What do you suggest we do now?

Longer strikes at key times. No one or even two day strikes. Every week following bank holidays. Election run ups. All December.

Any more than 2 day strikes and people would have started going back to work. I agree we should have hit them harder at the start but expecting people to walk out for a whole week was never going to happen.

We had one couple in my office and his wife had to go in on a strike days or they would have missed their mortgage payment. People literally couldn’t afford to strike anymore and Royal Mail and the union knew this.

[nuisance]

[That's crazy talk. No one wants any more strikes or work to rule.
Mutual destruction guaranteed.

No one wanted any strikes but sometimes you have to be up for them. That's what the votes are about and so far, people have stated that they absolutely are. I suppose we'll see next ballot how much the numbers have changed with the union crumbling, but personally, I have confidence in the backbones of posties.