There are plenty of coherent arguments for voting yes or no.
The consequences of a yes vote are laid out in the 30 odd pages of the agreement.
All I've read from most on here and social media is this deal is shite, vote no.
What's actually missing from the debate is a coherent plan for how we deal with the aftermath of a no vote or even any acceptance that there will be any consequences.
Given that both sides of the negotiations feel they have gone as far as they can and admit it or not the business is in a mess..
If you're proposing to vote no... what do you think will happen next?
You are wasting your time Woody. I have asked him multiple times what he believes will be achieved by voting no, as I have others here, but all you get in response is incoherent ramblings and insults. The scary thing is people like him have as much of a say as people who choose to educate themselves before voting, which is probably why this country is in as much of a mess as it is. Gotta love democracy.
Lou you really are a ignorant fecker. Incoherent rambling and insults is your speciality.
Now that you are selling yourself as the font of all knowledge and you can see into the future i will bow down to your greatness.
Hopefully you recognise sarcasm.
Woody i dont have the time or inclination to write a 30 page document to keep you happy.
I am entitled to vote how i want as is anybody else, what i despise is self righteous feckers telling you that you are wrong and vote my way or you are stupid. And Iou fulfils that brief in spades and if you dont like democracy off you go to Russia, Putin will have a nice cosy place for you in Siberia.
What none of you seem to grasp is we are being asked to vote on THIS agreement, nothing else, no alternatives, just this one, we dont have to give a alternative. I dont think thats part of the vote.
Comprende!!!
Lou you really are a ignorant fecker. Incoherent rambling and insults is your speciality.
Now that you are selling yourself as the font of all knowledge and you can see into the future i will bow down to your greatness.
Hopefully you recognise sarcasm.
Good job you qualified that second sentence. You had me fooled for a second there.
Vote no scotchy. It is your right in this democratic country, as you say. This democratic country that has a government trying to outlaw peaceful protest, a government attempting to destroy trade unions, has a governing body actively (although admittedly unsuccessfully) attempting to rig elections, and has a media owned by corporations friendly with right wing politicians that are openly throwing out a Hail Mary via a trumped up culture war, to pathetically cling to power.
You were right to bring up Russia as a comparison to be fair.
If the results of any ballot return a rejection from the members, then surely the CWU executive have to respect that ballot and go back to Royal Mail and fight for a better option, even if they do not agree?
Exactly what happened with the RCN and their current dispute?
The CWU is the membership acting on the wishes of that membership.
True , too many people on here waving the white flag ,
We need to fight against this pathetic sell out deal .
Which ones are they ?
The morally superior ones who think they are better than the rest of us?
The condescending ones who think they are better than us ?
The ones who see the 'big picture' and have seen the 'real world' and know better than us ?
The ones that like come off as reasonable and sensible in their posts with the snide little digs thrown in ?
Lou you really are a ignorant fecker. Incoherent rambling and insults is your speciality.
Now that you are selling yourself as the font of all knowledge and you can see into the future i will bow down to your greatness.
Hopefully you recognise sarcasm.
Good job you qualified that second sentence. You had me fooled for a second there.
Vote no scotchy. It is your right in this democratic country, as you say. This democratic country that has a government trying to outlaw peaceful protest, a government attempting to destroy trade unions, has a governing body actively (although admittedly unsuccessfully) attempting to rig elections, and has a media owned by corporations friendly with right wing politicians that are openly throwing out a Hail Mary via a trumped up culture war, to pathetically cling to power.
You were right to bring up Russia as a comparison to be fair.
Now Lou stick to the script, we cant start having a debate on the political system in this country and the hierarchy. Would probably crash the website and start WW3. And i am not taking the flak for that one.
Lou you really are a ignorant fecker. Incoherent rambling and insults is your speciality.
Now that you are selling yourself as the font of all knowledge and you can see into the future i will bow down to your greatness.
Hopefully you recognise sarcasm.
Good job you qualified that second sentence. You had me fooled for a second there.
Vote no scotchy. It is your right in this democratic country, as you say. This democratic country that has a government trying to outlaw peaceful protest, a government attempting to destroy trade unions, has a governing body actively (although admittedly unsuccessfully) attempting to rig elections, and has a media owned by corporations friendly with right wing politicians that are openly throwing out a Hail Mary via a trumped up culture war, to pathetically cling to power.
You were right to bring up Russia as a comparison to be fair.
Now Lou stick to the script, we cant start having a debate on the political system in this country and the hierarchy. Would probably crash the website and start WW3. And i am not taking the flak for that one.
Mate, you brought up democracy so it was a valid response. I suspect that although we are worlds apart on opinions, when it comes to this dispute, we would probably agree on a lot more when it comes to politics.
[/quote]
What none of you seem to grasp is we are being asked to vote on THIS agreement, nothing else, no alternatives, just this one, we dont have to give a alternative. I dont think thats part of the vote.
Comprende!!!
[/quote]
You're being asked to vote yes or no.
Both have consequences.
You can't moan about the consequence of one and then ignore the consequences of the other.
That's dishonest.
There are many possible consequences of a no vote. It's up to RM and the CWU leadership to manage that, not us.
It's up to you to consider how they will manage that and how that will affect you and your family.
The ''be lucky to have a job'' stick only works on people who think the job would be worth keeping.
Many of those voting not to accept the deal are doing so because if the agreement was in place, they wont want to stick around anyway.
In my place, people are leaving in their droves as it stands nevermind the job becoming even worse.
People can only be frightened into losing a good job.
I will be voting yes because i still think its a half decent job (not good or great) but half decent has served me well. Ohh forgot ( i work in processing my job is easy)..an my opinion is not welcome as a yes voter.not a personal attack acca just saying my piece.
There are many possible consequences of a no vote. It's up to RM and the CWU leadership to manage that, not us.
It's up to you to consider how they will manage that and how that will affect you and your family.
The ''be lucky to have a job'' stick only works on people who think the job would be worth keeping.
Many of those voting not to accept the deal are doing so because if the agreement was in place, they wont want to stick around anyway.
In my place, people are leaving in their droves as it stands nevermind the job becoming even worse.
People can only be frightened into losing a good job.
I will be voting yes because i still think its a half decent job (not good or great) but half decent has served me well. Ohh forgot ( i work in processing my job is easy)..an my opinion is not welcome as a yes voter.not a personal attack acca just saying my piece.
Your opinion is as welcome as anybodys and you acknowledge you do a very different job from those on delivery who always tend to bear the brunt.
I dont have any problem with someone voting yes at all
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
There are many possible consequences of a no vote. It's up to RM and the CWU leadership to manage that, not us.
It's up to you to consider how they will manage that and how that will affect you and your family.
The ''be lucky to have a job'' stick only works on people who think the job would be worth keeping.
Many of those voting not to accept the deal are doing so because if the agreement was in place, they wont want to stick around anyway.
In my place, people are leaving in their droves as it stands nevermind the job becoming even worse.
People can only be frightened into losing a good job.
I will be voting yes because i still think its a half decent job (not good or great) but half decent has served me well. Ohh forgot ( i work in processing my job is easy)..an my opinion is not welcome as a yes voter.not a personal attack acca just saying my piece.
Your opinion is as welcome as anybodys and you acknowledge you do a very different job from those on delivery who always tend to bear the brunt.
I dont have any problem with someone voting yes at all
Personally if i was on del i would be long gone dda case here.just about get by in a mc.totally acknowledge what delivery face everday. I also acknowledge you don,t give any abuse to people who are voting yes.
From what I’ve heard from my old mail centre they’ve all be absolutely shafted in their revision far worse than the revision what’s happened in my office. Asking people to lower their hours or become super numerous don’t sound like much fun.
The ''be lucky to have a job'' stick only works on people who think the job would be worth keeping.
Many of those voting not to accept the deal are doing so because if the agreement was in place, they wont want to stick around anyway.
In my place, people are leaving in their droves as it stands nevermind the job becoming even worse.
People can only be frightened into losing a good job.
It's nothing to do with being lucky to have a job.
The fact that it's a s**t deal is not a legitimate reason to vote no.
Punishing the CWU or Royal Mail is not a legitimate reason to vote no.
The fact that you personally might not fancy working under these terms is not a legitimate reason to vote no.
The only legitimate reason to vote no is because you truly believe that voting no will lead to a significantly better outcome.
If that is your reason for voting no I totally respect that but there's a lot of working out to get to that place and I don't share your confidence.