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Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Pay talks 2022 discussion, news, LTB's RMCtv and all BUSINESS RECOVERY, TRANSFORMATION AND GROWTH AGREEMENT chat
scotchy1962
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 847
Joined: 25 Mar 2020, 16:55
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by scotchy1962 »

LouBarlow wrote:
17 May 2023, 11:22
scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 08:47

Feck all to do with engaging my brain, i am voting on what is in front of me, not on what might or might not happen.
In a free society we are entitled to vote how we feel. Get over it!
I am not scared of any of the threats or intimidation, and i dont mind how you vote and will not criticise you over it.
This is the difference in me and you.
I don’t care how you vote, but at least apply some logical thinking to the situation beforehand. Voting no is not going to stop these changes from happening. If you insist that it will, you have no idea how agreements work at all.
You dont care how i vote? Then tell me about what might happen if i vote No? Make your mind up would you!
Logical enough for you!
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by Woody Guthrie »

Woody nothing wrong with wanting a agreement that actually does what it says without room for these half-wits to do what they like.
There is.

1. I've never seen one anywhere, not just in respect to trade agreements but literally anywhere in life.

2. If such a thing was even possible an employer stuck with an agreement they didn't like and couldn't find any value for themselves would simply tear it up rendering the whole "written in stone" narrative pointless.
Only dead fish follow the current
redlen
Posts: 1331
Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by redlen »

The Agenda For Growth, with its legal undertakings as an Express term, put legal obligations on both Royal Mail and the CWU to comply with those prescribed terms or face civil action in the courts for breach of contract.

We can argue that the Royal Mail could say it was in dire financial trouble and be released from that contract as the survival of the business was in jeopardy, but??

It was the CWU, and not Royal Mail, who tore up that agreement with the pay ballot. Only then did Royal Mail go nuclear with terms and conditions after being released from that contractual obligation.
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by Woody Guthrie »

The legal obligations were deliberately separated from the Agenda for Growth precisely because you cannot have a legally binding trade agreement.

Even the legally binding obligations were not "written in stone" because they contained exit clauses including industrial action but also simply if the obligations were financially unsustainable.

They were only adhered to while it suited the business and had already run their course and been circumvented repeatedly long before they were officially "torn up".
Only dead fish follow the current
daveyeff
Posts: 4699
Joined: 12 Mar 2010, 19:38
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by daveyeff »

suppose we all voted yes. whats stopping them from spitting their dummy out and just going ''nuclear'' on us all again if they find the deal doesn't suit them.? for me the union has just rolled over on this one just to simply ''get back in the room''. they've well and truly pissed on their chips here by showing total weakness. they've let them attack the sick pay, they've let them attack the attendance procedure, they've let them attack IHR, they let them attack EVR, they've let them bring in later starts, all of these things is what they had us out for 18 days for. we've lost.
Acca Dacca
Posts: 3189
Joined: 16 Aug 2009, 17:13
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by Acca Dacca »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
17 May 2023, 18:20
The legal obligations were deliberately separated from the Agenda for Growth precisely because you cannot have a legally binding trade agreement.

Even the legally binding obligations were not "written in stone" because they contained exit clauses including industrial action but also simply if the obligations were financially unsustainable.

They were only adhered to while it suited the business and had already run their course and been circumvented repeatedly long before they were officially "torn up".
What reasons have your branch given for recommending a NO vote in the ballot?
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
redlen
Posts: 1331
Joined: 21 Dec 2021, 12:05
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by redlen »

Woody Guthrie wrote:
17 May 2023, 18:20
The legal obligations were deliberately separated from the Agenda for Growth precisely because you cannot have a legally binding trade agreement.

Even the legally binding obligations were not "written in stone" because they contained exit clauses including industrial action but also simply if the obligations were financially unsustainable.

They were only adhered to while it suited the business and had already run their course and been circumvented repeatedly long before they were officially "torn up".
To be fair, you can have a legally binding trade agreements as long as they apply to all sellers and affect domestic goods and imported goods equally.

Though do agree employed contractual issues with internal terms and conditions are kept separate as that is a separate issue.
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by Woody Guthrie »

Collective bargaining trade union agreement Len.
I didn't think at this stage I would have to use longhand.
What reasons have your branch given for recommending a NO vote in the ballot?
The situation in Scotland is slightly different.
We are at the end of the pipeline and therefore subject to the worst of the changes to start times.

We are also subject to the least amount of daylight in the winter and arguably the poorest weather conditions.

Most of the Scottish branches are of the opinion that we are an afterthought to both Royal Mail and the London-centric CWU hierarchy.

There are other issues but that is by far the biggest reason.
Only dead fish follow the current
daveyeff
Posts: 4699
Joined: 12 Mar 2010, 19:38
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by daveyeff »

Wales are not at the end of the pipeline though. i wonder why they recommended a no?
Martin Walsh
Posts: 4256
Joined: 19 Sep 2007, 20:12
Location: neverland

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by Martin Walsh »

Woody if it helps these are the headlines for Scotland and Northern Ireland.
IMG_4149.png
LouBarlow
Posts: 4682
Joined: 15 Oct 2007, 18:56

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by LouBarlow »

scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 16:39
LouBarlow wrote:
17 May 2023, 11:22
scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 08:47

Feck all to do with engaging my brain, i am voting on what is in front of me, not on what might or might not happen.
In a free society we are entitled to vote how we feel. Get over it!
I am not scared of any of the threats or intimidation, and i dont mind how you vote and will not criticise you over it.
This is the difference in me and you.
I don’t care how you vote, but at least apply some logical thinking to the situation beforehand. Voting no is not going to stop these changes from happening. If you insist that it will, you have no idea how agreements work at all.
You dont care how i vote? Then tell me about what might happen if i vote No? Make your mind up would you!
Logical enough for you!
No, not really. You are all over the place with your posts. I can tell you what will happen in the event of a no vote though. There will be no agreements in place and Royal Mail will be free to bring in any change they wish as they will have literally no barriers outside of employment law. Oh and you will also miss out on any monetary gain in the process. Enjoy later starts, no sick pay and no extra money in your pocket.

Hope this helps?
postieblueshirt
Posts: 1241
Joined: 01 Oct 2019, 22:05
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by postieblueshirt »

LouBarlow wrote:
17 May 2023, 21:51
scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 16:39
LouBarlow wrote:
17 May 2023, 11:22
scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 08:47

Feck all to do with engaging my brain, i am voting on what is in front of me, not on what might or might not happen.
In a free society we are entitled to vote how we feel. Get over it!
I am not scared of any of the threats or intimidation, and i dont mind how you vote and will not criticise you over it.
This is the difference in me and you.
I don’t care how you vote, but at least apply some logical thinking to the situation beforehand. Voting no is not going to stop these changes from happening. If you insist that it will, you have no idea how agreements work at all.
You dont care how i vote? Then tell me about what might happen if i vote No? Make your mind up would you!
Logical enough for you!
No, not really. You are all over the place with your posts. I can tell you what will happen in the event of a no vote though. There will be no agreements in place and Royal Mail will be free to bring in any change they wish as they will have literally no barriers outside of employment law. Oh and you will also miss out on any monetary gain in the process. Enjoy later starts, no sick pay and no extra money in your pocket.

Hope this helps?
I swear every time you post something a fence sitter has decided to vote no just to piss you off.Enough's enough.
aiden01
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
Posts: 7001
Joined: 27 Feb 2013, 21:43
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by aiden01 »

postieblueshirt wrote:
17 May 2023, 21:58
LouBarlow wrote:
17 May 2023, 21:51
scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 16:39
LouBarlow wrote:
17 May 2023, 11:22
scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 08:47

Feck all to do with engaging my brain, i am voting on what is in front of me, not on what might or might not happen.
In a free society we are entitled to vote how we feel. Get over it!
I am not scared of any of the threats or intimidation, and i dont mind how you vote and will not criticise you over it.
This is the difference in me and you.
I don’t care how you vote, but at least apply some logical thinking to the situation beforehand. Voting no is not going to stop these changes from happening. If you insist that it will, you have no idea how agreements work at all.
You dont care how i vote? Then tell me about what might happen if i vote No? Make your mind up would you!
Logical enough for you!
No, not really. You are all over the place with your posts. I can tell you what will happen in the event of a no vote though. There will be no agreements in place and Royal Mail will be free to bring in any change they wish as they will have literally no barriers outside of employment law. Oh and you will also miss out on any monetary gain in the process. Enjoy later starts, no sick pay and no extra money in your pocket.

Hope this helps?
I swear every time you post something a fence sitter has decided to vote no just to piss you off.Enough's enough.
I swear everytime you say you are voting yes on here you get slaughtered from all angles at end of the day we are all adults an have our own opinion.
scotchy1962
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 847
Joined: 25 Mar 2020, 16:55
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by scotchy1962 »

LouBarlow wrote:
17 May 2023, 21:51
scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 16:39
LouBarlow wrote:
17 May 2023, 11:22
scotchy1962 wrote:
17 May 2023, 08:47

Feck all to do with engaging my brain, i am voting on what is in front of me, not on what might or might not happen.
In a free society we are entitled to vote how we feel. Get over it!
I am not scared of any of the threats or intimidation, and i dont mind how you vote and will not criticise you over it.
This is the difference in me and you.
I don’t care how you vote, but at least apply some logical thinking to the situation beforehand. Voting no is not going to stop these changes from happening. If you insist that it will, you have no idea how agreements work at all.
You dont care how i vote? Then tell me about what might happen if i vote No? Make your mind up would you!
Logical enough for you!
No, not really. You are all over the place with your posts. I can tell you what will happen in the event of a no vote though. There will be no agreements in place and Royal Mail will be free to bring in any change they wish as they will have literally no barriers outside of employment law. Oh and you will also miss out on any monetary gain in the process. Enjoy later starts, no sick pay and no extra money in your pocket.

Hope this helps?
Its people like you who make it impossible for the Union, you have no real argument except vote "Yes", you think you are winning people over with your rhetoric, all you are doing is alienating, you are a spineless surrender monkey who would vote yes to anything.
Being a troll must have its perks but i dont see them.
And now you say you can see the future..... give us all a break!!
I will vote whatever way i see fit along with the rest of the posties.
Woody Guthrie
Posts: 5166
Joined: 29 Sep 2018, 20:47
Gender: Male

Re: Fao Martin Walsh / New start times

Post by Woody Guthrie »

you have no real argument except vote "Yes"
There are plenty of coherent arguments for voting yes or no.

The consequences of a yes vote are laid out in the 30 odd pages of the agreement.

All I've read from most on here and social media is this deal is shite, vote no.

What's actually missing from the debate is a coherent plan for how we deal with the aftermath of a no vote or even any acceptance that there will be any consequences.

Given that both sides of the negotiations feel they have gone as far as they can and admit it or not the business is in a mess..

If you're proposing to vote no... what do you think will happen next?
Only dead fish follow the current