It is what every union does

[zz666]

Our terms and conditions are going to be worse than before.

[LouBarlow]

Any union would wish to secure jobs and conditions when they are dealing with an employer about to post record losses for the year. That and they have secured a pay-rise, but sure, continue to post that we should continue to strike despite both sides saying this is the best they can do. I ask you, as I do everyone on here, what do you hope to achieve by voting no? I have never had a response yet. Be the first.

On change: I hope to achieve zero destruction of the current terms and conditions I go to work on. I would like to achieve improved t&c's but I am not optimistic that this is possible. I am committed to, at least, keeping what I have and I am furious that the union has moved from this position. It is shameful. A no vote must be followed up with better organised industrial action.

On pay: I no longer hope to achieve anything but I am still prepared to support pushing for a decent pay rise, we have been mugged off in this respect along with all the other attacks which the union are doing virtually nothing about.

How does voting No make you achieve any of these aims? What do you expect after a no vote? The union and RM will not suddenly magic up a new one. They have been negotiating for nigh on a year now and both have agreed this is it.

In all honesty the only reason I can see for voting No is if you want to burn the company down but even that won’t work. The reality is voting no loses your lump sum, loses your pay rise, ensures that RM can bring in all the changes they want anyway without any guidelines or push back from the union.

Voting no loses you any of the benefits of this deal and ensures you get the worst. And then some.

[k979aaa]

Our terms and conditions are going to be worse than before.

Well yes!

[SpacePhoenix]

In all honesty the only reason I can see for voting No is if you want to burn the company down but even that won’t work. The reality is voting no loses your lump sum, loses your pay rise, ensures that RM can bring in all the changes they want anyway without any guidelines or push back from the union.

RM are probably going to bring in a load of changes no matter which way we vote, the union seem more like RM's poodle rather than fighting for its members

[richj2009]

Yes or no the job is so physically agreessive now noone will be able to do it more than a few years as bodies will conk out. That's why Royal mail shafted sick and ill health as they too know it's ridiculous. That's Royal mails insurance policy and the union have agreed to it. That blows my mind

Thats what i feared but my reality is that since our revision im actually walking less due to having so many tracked to deliver as well as what feels like ever increasing number of Specials and consumer collections.

In a way the less walking is what my body needs but its just such a demoralising, frustrating and . . . CRAZY way to be working, all caused by just STUPID decisions made by people who’ve never done the job.

The chaos in my office yesterday was something ive not seen in over 15 years with Royal Mail.

So you mean your walking less by leaving mail to accommodate additional tracked. If that's what you mean then once again a breach of uso caused by our great board indifferent to the deal.

[k979aaa]

Well probably are

[nuisance]

How does voting No make you achieve any of these aims? What do you expect after a no vote? The union and RM will not suddenly magic up a new one. They have been negotiating for nigh on a year now and both have agreed this is it.

In all honesty the only reason I can see for voting No is if you want to burn the company down but even that won’t work. The reality is voting no loses your lump sum, loses your pay rise, ensures that RM can bring in all the changes they want anyway without any guidelines or push back from the union.

Voting no loses you any of the benefits of this deal and ensures you get the worst. And then some.

No it doesn't. If no votes exceed yes votes then it spells out to our union representatives that by making this agreement they are going against the wishes of the majority of the membership, who voted overwhelmingly in favor of strike action in response to virtually the same deal. It puts it in black and white to them and reminds them that if the membership wants to continue to fight these attacks (which is what this "agreement" is, in my opinion) then they need to do it and figure out how to make a better job of it. Giving up is not something that many of us are prepared to do and if RM give us the worst then we must fire back our worst at them because the job on offer cannot be accepted by many, and I believe, most of us, on delivery.

[Nickvilla20]

How does voting No make you achieve any of these aims? What do you expect after a no vote? The union and RM will not suddenly magic up a new one. They have been negotiating for nigh on a year now and both have agreed this is it.

In all honesty the only reason I can see for voting No is if you want to burn the company down but even that won’t work. The reality is voting no loses your lump sum, loses your pay rise, ensures that RM can bring in all the changes they want anyway without any guidelines or push back from the union.

Voting no loses you any of the benefits of this deal and ensures you get the worst. And then some.

No it doesn't. If no votes exceed yes votes then it spells out to our union representatives that by making this agreement they are going against the wishes of the majority of the membership, who voted overwhelmingly in favor of strike action in response to virtually the same deal. It puts it in black and white to them and reminds them that if the membership wants to continue to fight these attacks (which is what this "agreement" is, in my opinion) then they need to do it and figure out how to make a better job of it. Giving up is not something that many of us are prepared to do and if RM give us the worst then we must fire back our worst at them because the job on offer cannot be accepted by many, and I believe, most of us, on delivery.

When the company posts record losses (not our fault) they will plead poverty and say that’s the best they can do and a no vote will say the workers just want to destroy the company (we don’t).

We deserve better that’s obvious but there won’t be any change to the agreement as both sides have no intention of renegotiating. Our leverage has gone the strikes didn’t work and the union have no more cards to play.

A no vote just means we probably get the changes forced through with executive action like that have with all the revisions. I have to admit Royal Mail have played a blinder they’ve got the deal they want and have basically de unionised the workforce at the same time.

[k979aaa]

Hide behind their members.Nice

[nuisance]

When the company posts record losses (not our fault) they will plead poverty and say that’s the best they can do and a no vote will say the workers just want to destroy the company (we don’t).

We deserve better that’s obvious but there won’t be any change to the agreement as both sides have no intention of renegotiating. Our leverage has gone the strikes didn’t work and the union have no more cards to play.

A no vote just means we probably get the changes forced through with executive action like that have with all the revisions. I have to admit Royal Mail have played a blinder they’ve got the deal they want and have basically de unionised the workforce at the same time.

Point 1: So what? Let them say that. All they do is lie, one more isn't going to have an impact.

Point 2: A no vote instructs our union reps that they must change their intention to go along with RMs agenda.

Point 3: Our leverage is not gone. I agree that we wasted our maximum leverage last Christmas with poorly planned and poorly executed strikes but our labour is still leverage. Our office was rammed this week with parcels ordered over the bank holiday, imagine if we'd gone all out and all that business had gone to DPD, etc. The work is still there, we're still there making them money by doing it. Stopping remains our leverage as we can bring the business down eventually if RM do not re-assess their stance on how they treat their workforce.

Point 4: Things can't be forced on a workforce this big and established, the changes need our - the union's - co-operation and the union need reminding that, as things stand, RM aren't getting it.

[k979aaa]

Poorly planed hence my thread we can waest days on here about what could happen but to me it is water under the bridge it's gone!

[Nickvilla20]

When the company posts record losses (not our fault) they will plead poverty and say that’s the best they can do and a no vote will say the workers just want to destroy the company (we don’t).

We deserve better that’s obvious but there won’t be any change to the agreement as both sides have no intention of renegotiating. Our leverage has gone the strikes didn’t work and the union have no more cards to play.

A no vote just means we probably get the changes forced through with executive action like that have with all the revisions. I have to admit Royal Mail have played a blinder they’ve got the deal they want and have basically de unionised the workforce at the same time.

Point 1: So what? Let them say that. All they do is lie, one more isn't going to have an impact.

Point 2: A no vote instructs our union reps that they must change their intention to go along with RMs agenda.

Point 3: Our leverage is not gone. I agree that we wasted our maximum leverage last Christmas with poorly planned and poorly executed strikes but our labour is still leverage. Our office was rammed this week with parcels ordered over the bank holiday, imagine if we'd gone all out and all that business had gone to DPD, etc. The work is still there, we're still there making them money by doing it. Stopping remains our leverage as we can bring the business down eventually if RM do not re-assess their stance on how they treat their workforce.

Point 4: Things can't be forced on a workforce this big and established, the changes need our - the union's - co-operation and the union need reminding that, as things stand, RM aren't getting it.

The strike ballot runs out in 3 months and I can’t see us been balloted for strike action again.

The company don’t care about the work they are happy for deliveries not to go out for days at a time. Most deliveries in my office now are bringing back mail daily.

The deal is poor but I’m not sure what you think will change with a no vote. You also have to remember the majority of the workforce won’t even read the deal and will just see the pay rise and the lump sum and to most the money is king.

[nuisance]

The strike ballot runs out in 3 months and I can’t see us been balloted for strike action again.

The company don’t care about the work they are happy for deliveries not to go out for days at a time. Most deliveries in my office now are bringing back mail daily.

The deal is poor but I’m not sure what you think will change with a no vote. You also have to remember the majority of the workforce won’t even read the deal and will just see the pay rise and the lump sum and to most the money is king.

1: Who knows? A lot can happen in 3 months.

2: I agree that they are not only happy, but keen on bringing back and withholding mail, I said parcels.

3: The payrise is crap, the lump sum is crap and anyway, I disagree, most people have a massive issue over at least one of the proposed changes to t & cs.

[k979aaa]

So too sum it up it a crap deal we need better negotiators hence may other post!

[dazzler123]

Yes or no the job is so physically agreessive now noone will be able to do it more than a few years as bodies will conk out. That's why Royal mail shafted sick and ill health as they too know it's ridiculous. That's Royal mails insurance policy and the union have agreed to it. That blows my mind

Thats what i feared but my reality is that since our revision im actually walking less due to having so many tracked to deliver as well as what feels like ever increasing number of Specials and consumer collections.

In a way the less walking is what my body needs but its just such a demoralising, frustrating and . . . CRAZY way to be working, all caused by just STUPID decisions made by people who’ve never done the job.

The chaos in my office yesterday was something ive not seen in over 15 years with Royal Mail.

So you mean your walking less by leaving mail to accommodate additional tracked. If that's what you mean then once again a breach of uso caused by our great board indifferent to the deal.

this week im driving 4 more miles to deliver half the mail. Utter s**t show, i cant decide whether they are evil genius' or indeed that much of a clusterfeck you have to see it to be believed