Worth reviewing Royal Mails original proposals

[Burghboy]

Toon the check off threat happens in every dispute. The union pays a heathy sum to Royal Mail to deduct union subs. Anyone who thinks that is a reason the union arrived at an agreement is being disingenuous.

Let’s be clear that Royal Mail wanted to smash the union and workforce and did not want an agreement for months.

The board however overruled the CEO and wanted an agreement and that is what has been achieved.

Anyone who believes that no change is an option is wrong the company will be finished without change.

Now in terms of flogging a dead horse I have contributed to this sites for longer than most and I have seen similar opposition to new agreements whether that was Pay and Mod , BT 2010 , Agenda for Growth , 4 Pillars or even the Pathway for change where people thought Sunday working was compulsory. They all were supported by the vast majority.

The engagement plan to explain this agreement not individuals interpretations is important.

For example out of 1250 Delivery units only 109 units will have a finishing time after 16.00. 28% of units will be before 14.59 , 63% before 15.30, 93% before 16.00 and this has been modelled on the peak day of Wednesday. So this rumour everyone is going to finish at 16.30 is wrong.

I have done 3 Branch local reps meetings this week and all of them are now backing the agreement once explained to their members.

When will we see the finish times? And will they also reflect the last letter time for winter when we are doing extra hours?

[redlen]

Martin

What is the point of an independent review with conduct cases when Royal Mail is refusing to take back dismissed reps even after they have won their NAP Appeal?

Sorry but to me it appears those facing conduct charges/Dismissed have been thrown under a bus in getting this rushed negotiators agreement proposal released.

What chance has the CWU got in recruiting new reps to replace those dismissed if they know we will abandon them at first base and probably lose their job?

In reality, it is an appalling proposal in which the CWU should be ashamed of even considering it, let alone recommending it to the members despite the economic realities facing Royal Mail..

As for Kings Counsel?

That is nothing more than a red herring as even if an employee wins an employment tribiunal, again the employer does not have to reinstate that employee.

[toonshola]

Toon the check off threat happens in every dispute. The union pays a heathy sum to Royal Mail to deduct union subs. Anyone who thinks that is a reason the union arrived at an agreement is being disingenuous.

Let’s be clear that Royal Mail wanted to smash the union and workforce and did not want an agreement for months.

The board however overruled the CEO and wanted an agreement and that is what has been achieved.

Anyone who believes that no change is an option is wrong the company will be finished without change.

Now in terms of flogging a dead horse I have contributed to this sites for longer than most and I have seen similar opposition to new agreements whether that was Pay and Mod , BT 2010 , Agenda for Growth , 4 Pillars or even the Pathway for change where people thought Sunday working was compulsory. They all were supported by the vast majority.

The engagement plan to explain this agreement not individuals interpretations is important.

For example out of 1250 Delivery units only 109 units will have a finishing time after 16.00. 28% of units will be before 14.59 , 63% before 15.30, 93% before 16.00 and this has been modelled on the peak day of Wednesday. So this rumour everyone is going to finish at 16.30 is wrong.

I have done 3 Branch local reps meetings this week and all of them are now backing the agreement once explained to their members.

Appreciate the reply but come on really? I won’t call you personally a liar as that may be unfair but to say it’s disingenuous that the check off issue hasn’t had a big part to play in all this is in my opinion outrageous. Of course it has. We can all see it, for months the union was screaming(rightly) how bad the changes were and how weak the payrise was then all of a sudden boom all the changes agreed and an embarrassing payrise. The union found a way to preserve itself and its funding and grabbed it with both hands and through us lot out the window.

I’ll be voting no and I won’t be falling for the next stunt that’s about to be pulled which will be another lump sum announced just before our ballot papers land, no doubt planned weeks ago with Royal Mail knowing full well how poorly this deal would be received.

[Spartacus]

Re finish times, is it a 4.30 finish in the summer or winter?

Does the 4.30 finish include the 30 mins flex they're looking for?

Does the 4.30 finish include the 24 minutes a day they're making us work for no reward this winter?

In short you can't tell us what time we're going to be finishing because it's all dependant on distribution and network, would that be correct?

If you know what time each office will finish why would you keep that information to yourselves?

Finally how long before RM come back for even later starts and finishes?

[SpacePhoenix]

In short you can't tell us what time we're going to be finishing because it's all dependant on distribution and network, would that be correct?

Also depending on what time the wave 2 runs eventually leave the MCs at, you've got to factor in time lost with the lorries stuck in traffic

[Timetomoveon]

Worth remembering this agreement came about predominantly because Royal Mail agreed to release time for higher reps in cushy positions and that they would continue to take sub’s directly from wages then you sold us out. Care to address this? You have been asked several times on here and have dodged the question.

Asked the same on FB some reason I get no reply

[77SAMPOST77]

Martin

What is the point of an independent review with conduct cases when Royal Mail is refusing to take back dismissed reps even after they have won their NAP Appeal?

Sorry but to me it appears those facing conduct charges/Dismissed have been thrown under a bus in getting this rushed negotiators agreement proposal released.

What chance has the CWU got in recruiting new reps to replace those dismissed if they know we will abandon them at first base and probably lose their job?

In reality, it is an appalling proposal in which the CWU should be ashamed of even considering it, let alone recommending it to the members despite the economic realities facing Royal Mail..

As for Kings Counsel?

That is nothing more than a red herring as even if an employee wins an employment tribiunal, again the employer does not have to reinstate that employee.

I totally agree with the above ,

We have not got a rep after ours was sacked and nobody wants the job because they now know the union will not back them when push comes to shove .

[nuisance]

No to inadequate sick pay.
No to annualised hours.
No to later starts and finishes.

Just about yes to the crap, insufficient pay rise.

You've a hell of a way to go yet. This deal remains unacceptable.

[Neverwasadoor]

Martin,
Are we going to get a list of each offices finish times before the vote as was promised.
And also please answer the other post that asked are the finish times inclusive of the 24 minutes seasonal and any flex.

[smok3y666]

Worth reviewing the unions original claims as well, remeber those?

[Judgee]

For example out of 1250 Delivery units only 109 units will have a finishing time after 16.00. 28% of units will be before 14.59 , 63% before 15.30, 93% before 16.00 and this has been modelled on the peak day of Wednesday. So this rumour everyone is going to finish at 16.30 is wrong.

Oh that's ok then as long as only some of the offices are thrown under the bus we may as well just s**t all over them and vote yes!

I am voting no and no amount of CWU brain washing will convince me to do otherwise!

If it was such a good deal it wouldn't need 3 weeks of CWU propaganda and scaremongering to try and get a yes vote would it?

[thefox]

Martin

What is the point of an independent review with conduct cases when Royal Mail is refusing to take back dismissed reps even after they have won their NAP Appeal?

Sorry but to me it appears those facing conduct charges/Dismissed have been thrown under a bus in getting this rushed negotiators agreement proposal released.

What chance has the CWU got in recruiting new reps to replace those dismissed if they know we will abandon them at first base and probably lose their job?

In reality, it is an appalling proposal in which the CWU should be ashamed of even considering it, let alone recommending it to the members despite the economic realities facing Royal Mail..

As for Kings Counsel?

That is nothing more than a red herring as even if an employee wins an employment tribiunal, again the employer does not have to reinstate that employee.

Well said len.

[moonjaguar]

Hi Martin
If I get lucky and my office is one of the early finish times of say 3pm, even that is still too late for the school run. However, if I could take my break at the end of my shift and sign out at the start instead of having to sign out at the end of the break, I could still pick the kids up. Has that been discussed?

[Foxel]

However bad the original proposals were, they are not a valid reason to accept the current agreement.

Ironically called the "fallacy of relative privation.

[guardianangel]

Worth remembering this agreement came about predominantly because Royal Mail agreed to release time for higher reps in cushy positions and that they would continue to take sub’s directly from wages then you sold us out. Care to address this? You have been asked several times on here and have dodged the question.

Its one big club ,governments and elites will do anything to subvert the workers.