Royal Mail going bust is NEVER going to happen

[iHateD2Ds]

If RM go bust then the board will they will lose their jobs and any credibility may have.
Will the workers be worst off?
Who knows, but many will be happy with redundancy just to get out.

Statutory redundancy pay

You’ll normally be entitled to statutory redundancy pay if you’re an employee and you’ve been working for your current employer for 2 years or more.

You’ll get:

half a week’s pay for each full year you were under 22
one week’s pay for each full year you were 22 or older, but under 41
one and half week’s pay for each full year you were 41 or older
Length of service is capped at 20 years.

Your weekly pay is the average you earned per week over the 12 weeks before the day you got your redundancy notice.

[LouBarlow]

Why would I not be a postman ???

Are you a Postman? and be honest.

18 years as a postie - in fact I am in the same office as claystone.

The Government will not let Royal Mail go into administration, but what will come out the other side will not look good.
There will be thousands of job losses and our terms and conditions now will look fantastic to what will happen.

I have no doubt the vast majority would take a chance on the government over a private dictatorship hellbent on destroying all our t&c.

This government? Are you having a laugh?

[cornstar18]

Nice to see some actual valid points rather than just barking vote no!
If you remove your self from the fight for the job, and the battle in the trenches and how much you've lost striking - it's at a point now where you've just gotta ask yourself which route is the least bad...
Vote yes - worse terms, better pay, job security, a union
Vote no - worse terms, will you still have a job? Will it be the same pay, will it be less, and surely there won't be a union any more..
So beyond the words of 'I'd rather take the company down with me', which sane person would go against all factual financial information and union advice to Vote no

[scotchy1962]

My opinion is its always been a bluff, going into administration is a perilous if not more for RM as it is for us.
Questions need to be asked, how do you go from making £400 million to losing that much? A £800 million swing, i dont know about you but i dont see that much of a difference in a year.
I also cant believe that the Slyman and the board will not be penalised for what is happening, but then again look at his CV failure everywhere he goes and he lands a job at one of the biggest employers in the country, says it all really.
Dont think about this as a battle between the union and RM, take a look at it as a personal attack on you! Would you let them away with it if it was you in negotiations, i know i would call their bluff and even if it isnt a bluff i would still take my chances.
Nobody really knows what is going on with the finances of this company, but one things for sure, i didnt get them in this position and i sure as hell dont see why i should pay the price for someone elses mistakes.

[cornstar18]

It really is simple to explain, covid. We were rammed, we are now not.
They gave a bumper dividend because they'd frozen them the year before because we were..... yes loss making!
Yes the board giveaways is absolutely vile... welcome to the Real world. Yes.. its s**t..
So taking covid away, actually it's still the declining business it always was... how do we expect the job and terms to be maintained or bettered if we resist all change, which we do, let's be honest here

[LouBarlow]

My opinion is its always been a bluff, going into administration is a perilous if not more for RM as it is for us.
Questions need to be asked, how do you go from making £400 million to losing that much? A £800 million swing, i dont know about you but i dont see that much of a difference in a year.

You might not be noticing a difference if you have had a revision during that time and have had work added. We have not had a revision since 2019 in our office. Traffic has dropped off a cliff during that time. Record profits were being made during 2020 as people were sat inside ordering tat non-stop online. Since then, people have returned to normality and in even more recent times, the cost of living is biting and people are ordering less of said tat.

Then you have the rising costs associated with running a business. Fuel costs, energy costs, all have exploded in recent years. As well as buying a fleet of expensive electric vehicles. It is clear to see just how such a swing would come about.

[enskied]

It really is simple to explain, covid. We were rammed, we are now not.
They gave a bumper dividend because they'd frozen them the year before because we were..... yes loss making!
Yes the board giveaways is absolutely vile... welcome to the Real world. Yes.. its s**t..
So taking covid away, actually it's still the declining business it always was... how do we expect the job and terms to be maintained or bettered if we resist all change, which we d o, let's be honest here

Odd isn't really. Our office is still rammed, has been for years and our traffic volumes are increasing. I know that we buck the trend, yet bosses apply the the same cuts to us.
Hence no chance of uso compliance.

[scotchy1962]

It really is simple to explain, covid. We were rammed, we are now not.
They gave a bumper dividend because they'd frozen them the year before because we were..... yes loss making!
Yes the board giveaways is absolutely vile... welcome to the Real world. Yes.. its s**t..
So taking covid away, actually it's still the declining business it always was... how do we expect the job and terms to be maintained or bettered if we resist all change, which we do, let's be honest here

Hahaha great explanation "We were rammed", that was not the way it was for the whole pandemic. If you think things have fell off the cliff that much i doubt your sanity.
The business isnt declining otherwise there would be delivery companies dropping like flies and they arent.
Telling it like it is sounds great if its all factual.
We have always been open to change and since i became a postie the job has changed hugely, there has been a process to introduce the change which had worked up until the Slyman appeared.
All they do is lump more and more work onto us and then wonder why we struggle to complete. Everything they tell us to do takes time and they only employ us for a certain amount of it, so once the time runs out we are entitled to say NO my time is up. Its simple maths.
So lets be honest here how exactly do we resist change?

[postslippete]

It really is simple to explain, covid. We were rammed, we are now not.
They gave a bumper dividend because they'd frozen them the year before because we were..... yes loss making!
Yes the board giveaways is absolutely vile... welcome to the Real world. Yes.. its s**t..
So taking covid away, actually it's still the declining business it always was... how do we expect the job and terms to be maintained or bettered if we resist all change, which we do, let's be honest here

It's not a declining business.... unfortunately I don't have any figures off hand but there's no doubt that parcel traffic has gone through the roof. Maybe not at pandemic levels but certainly a lot higher than pre-pandemic.
Mail has reduced but they've put the prices up twice.
They've made duties bigger and in every royal mail revision I've seen, everytime they do this, they make a decent profit.
I'm not suggesting that we resist all the changes but some of the changes are designed for the company on the road to the gig economy

[cornstar18]

Your response sounds about as stubborn as your attitude to changes in your workplace probably are.
I'm not spending my Sunday debating the finer points of the last 3 years.
Here and now, what's best for us. Vote yes

[scotchy1962]

My opinion is its always been a bluff, going into administration is a perilous if not more for RM as it is for us.
Questions need to be asked, how do you go from making £400 million to losing that much? A £800 million swing, i dont know about you but i dont see that much of a difference in a year.

You might not be noticing a difference if you have had a revision during that time and have had work added. We have not had a revision since 2019 in our office. Traffic has dropped off a cliff during that time. Record profits were being made during 2020 as people were sat inside ordering tat non-stop online. Since then, people have returned to normality and in even more recent times, the cost of living is biting and people are ordering less of said tat.

Then you have the rising costs associated with running a business. Fuel costs, energy costs, all have exploded in recent years. As well as buying a fleet of expensive electric vehicles. It is clear to see just how such a swing would come about.

Lou you have said this before about it dropping off a cliff, i dont see it. As for rising costs the company have raised the prices in accordance, if i am not mistaken, and if they are still losing money then put them up again. Parcels and packets have dropped but not back to pre-pandemic levels, i know this is true as we are a very small office and the wendy, bulk york count has never dropped back to that level. Not even close in fact.
So certainly not enough for that sort of swing, so perhaps some of the blame could be laid at the companies door.
Revision has only just happened so not really a contributing factor.
I have no doubt that at some stage mail will more or less die a death, but its a generational thing and until this generation go and the new one who dont use post as a means of communication come in, we are stuck with it and the fluctuations that come with it.

[scotchy1962]

Your response sounds about as stubborn as your attitude to changes in your workplace probably are.
I'm not spending my Sunday debating the finer points of the last 3 years.
Here and now, what's best for us. Vote yes

Great argument you win!!
There are no finer points to argue over the last 3yrs we all lived through and worked through it, and in return we get this.
Vote however you feel is right for you. I will vote NO.

[cornstar18]

Not interested in the argument. Some peoples opinion won't change and that's fine. Just seems reckless to go on a hunch and vote no.
Just nice to see a bit more balance coming to the forum.

[SpacePhoenix]

Parcels and packets have dropped but not back to pre-pandemic levels,

They've dropped off a lot, probably to below pre-pandemic levels as the cost of living crisis really starts to bite. At one time we'd have enough work to keep us going through the night with it being a once in a blue moon that packets or Tracked would run out of work. Now it's becoming more and more common for small packets, small Tracked or both of them to run out of work at least once a night

[Martin Walsh]

You do realise that Royal Mail are legally obliged to introduce a business plan to avoid going into administration.

Royal Mail made it clear in the talks and their accounts were in the next room which costed up each part of the change and pay deal and obviously when the union reduced these changes then clearly that reduced what monies was associated to that business plan.

They also costed up that an agreement had a significant price tag to the business plan.

A no vote will mean that the business to prove to the market that it could continue to be a going concern would have to produce a business plan without the prospect of an agreement which would mean more change.

In addition there is only one company keeping the

However we had changed the companies position on all the following

1. Up to 3 hour later starts. 17:00 last letter delivery.
2. Processing and network duties moving up to 3 hours later.
3. Compulsory Sundays paid at Monday to Saturday rates.
4. Owner drivers in Royal Mail pick up the growth in parcels.
5. Annualised hours linked to scan in scan out deciding your pay.
6. Flexi bank so you don’t have a finish time you have to complete. Additionally if you finished earlier determine by your PDA/ Siso then they could determine when that hours would be worked.
7. 5 Mail Centre closures.
8. Their best and final agreement only gave a no compulsory redundancies agreement until March 2023.
9. The future of Parcelforce would have been unlimited owner drivers.
10. All legacy allowances to be removed including RRIS which for over 30 thousand members would be a pay cut ranging from £6 to £35 per week.
11. Pay was dependent on the change being introduced. The lump sum was also dependent on change being introduced.
12 individual performance standards linked to PDA OA and 100 BSi indoors. Replacement of the NCI procedure to allow individuals to be sacked for poor performance.


Yes the agreement is not perfect but anyone who believes Royal Mail are going to suddenly say there will be no change will have to think again.