Reps and agreement

[nuisance]

Come and tell us all your deal!

I don't have a deal, I have a position, where I am on the terms I'm on. I move when the incentive is there, that is how you negotiate. RM need to incentivise some of their negative changes and they aren't. Not for me and I can't see how they are for anyone else when the money on offer is a big real terms pay cut.

[sweepster70]

no way its going to be a yes vote our office all voting no its a total heap of s**t CWU hang your heads in shame bringing that crap deal to us

I believe it will be a yes vote. A lot of people need to open their eyes and look at the agreement as a whole. Compared to what Royal Mail wanted when we started out, there is a huge difference.
A lot of people are posting misinformation about the agreement on this site.
Some people will feel intimidated to disagree with you, but vote differently.
Some people will talk big to others but vote differently.
A lot of the people who have protected allowances will want to keep them. That's around 50-60% of the workforce.
London weighting hasn't been merged into one.
The people who have money worries will vote yes.
The people in the Union, who came in on strike days will vote yes.
The biggest no vote will come from deliveries, but I believe that will be 50-50 when it's time to vote.
It will be close, I'm going for 60-40 in favour of the deal.
Not sure if this has been posted but it's worth a listen to, if it works. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Mf8rD ... dkRZ2uNE0Q

[DGH]

And what next do you have a tree that grows money to pay us all a deal that will keep the business afloat and an agreement so your gambling on our future's by say you can get a better deal?

IDS choose not to cross-subsidise. That was made clear at the parliamentary hearings.
So there is in fact a magic money tree that will keep RM afloat and pay more, but IDS choose to reserve the fruit for their shareholders.

Someone said above that this deal is: crap pay, worse hours, more pressure.
And they're not wrong.

It's a real terms pay cut, and by a hefty amount.
What's worse is the savage attack on terms and conditions.

The union choosing to preserve grandfathered allowances, as just one example, is daft considering the paucity of the pay offer.

In my view a £1500 lump sum, pro rata, payable immediately.
6% backdated to October paid immediately.
4% from April 2024

would be a deal that would go through easily, despite the changes to T&Cs.

The changes to sick pay in particular are counter-productive and harsh, especially when coupled with the drastic reduction in IHR payments. The longer winter hours will be brutal on delivery, especially as 25 minutes of inside work will be swapped for 25 more minutes on delivery before you even get into the seasonal changes. 6-6.5 hour delivery spans at the worst time of year is just bleak.

And don't get me started on all the things that will be 'subject to review', etc. I have no idea why the union always seem to believe that RM will honour the spirit of these agreements when in every single previous instance they've abused the spirit and manipulated the letter to fit their own agenda.

This deal is an utter disgrace. The union should be shame-faced and saying 'sorry but this is all there is' rather than trumpeting some pyrrhic victories whilst hailing surrender as something to be celebrated.

[k979aaa]

Come and tell us all your deal!

I don't have a deal, I have a position, where I am on the terms I'm on. I move when the incentive is there, that is how you negotiate. RM need to incentivise some of their negative changes and they aren't. Not for me and I can't see how they are for anyone else when the money on offer is a big real terms pay cut.

Don't look at the pay do less work!

[postslippete]

I'm thinking possibly a 4 day week? An Innovative shift pattern, yes, we would be working later but there's at least an element of compromise with an additional day off. RM can also keep its new sick pay policy as at least an ageing workforce will have an additional day off to recover. That's the common sense way through this dispute....

This is a terrible idea. Condensing more miles into four days with, what, 8 hour delivery spans?
The only way to end this dispute is for RM to leave finish times alone, leave sick pay alone (or come up with a better proposal to address the piss-takers and not the genuinely, occasionally ill and injured rather than punishing everybody) and stop with the "you're all still not flexible enough we need you to commit to moreeeeeeee". Or offer a shedload more money (which would still not do it for me, but would do it enough for a yes vote).

I wondered if it could be possible for all mail to be delayed by a day as the new first class target. Like, allow everything to get to delivery offices later but, say, only next-day parcels go out on delivery (a second delivery for full timers again!) and all mail is sorted and prepared for delivery early the following morning. I know it's a reduction in the quality of service but it would be official, across the board and allow RM to make the changes and savings they want to on the transport of the mail. Perhaps it's a dumb idea but that's all I've thought up.

Did you mean that we start later and deliver all the parcels that come in first and then when we come back put all the mail in the frames at the end of the shift ready for the next day - so that we take 2 days worth of mail plus the packets on the next day?

I suppose in hindsight it might save us the first 2 hours of indoor time that RM suggest that it usually takes us to prep. I still think it will take us some time to sort through the parcels first though as I can't see these parcel sorting machines having everything in sequenced for us ready to go. But even though I don't like thought of finish times being put back or sick pay being reduced any more than you do I don't think that we are going to get a "no change" deal.

Obviously, none of us are going to be able to manage an 8 hour delivery walking span and that's not what I meant. But something along the lines of breaking the day up with a 2nd delivery of mainly parcels might work. Can't remember who mentioned it on here but whatever anyone proposes isn't going to be popular for us on deliveries because the business believes like it has done in previous deals - that the way forward to making bigger profits is fewer posties and bigger rounds!!

[k979aaa]

And what next do you have a tree that grows money to pay us all a deal that will keep the business afloat and an agreement so your gambling on our future's by say you can get a better deal?

IDS choose not to cross-subsidise. That was made clear at the parliamentary hearings.
So there is in fact a magic money tree that will keep RM afloat and pay more, but IDS choose to reserve the fruit for their shareholders.

Someone said above that this deal is: crap pay, worse hours, more pressure.
And they're not wrong.

It's a real terms pay cut, and by a hefty amount.
What's worse is the savage attack on terms and conditions.

The union choosing to preserve grandfathered allowances, as just one example, is daft considering the paucity of the pay offer.

In my view a £1500 lump sum, pro rata, payable immediately.
6% backdated to October paid immediately.
4% from April 2024

would be a deal that would go through easily, despite the changes to T&Cs.

The changes to sick pay in particular are counter-productive and harsh, especially when coupled with the drastic reduction in IHR payments. The longer winter hours will be brutal on delivery, especially as 25 minutes of inside work will be swapped for 25 more minutes on delivery before you even get into the seasonal changes. 6-6.5 hour delivery spans at the worst time of year is just bleak.

And don't get me started on all the things that will be 'subject to review', etc. I have no idea why the union always seem to believe that RM will honour the spirit of these agreements when in every single previous instance they've abused the spirit and manipulated the letter to fit their own agenda.

This deal is an utter disgrace. The union should be shame-faced and saying 'sorry but this is all there is' rather than trumpeting some pyrrhic victories whilst hailing surrender as something to be celebrated.

You get a vote on this s**t deal in times to come you may not!

[DGH]

You get a vote on this s**t deal in times to come you may not!

Erm, right. We do get to vote on this. And irrespective of this vote we may not get a chance in the future, because anyone deluding themselves that RM will not continue attacks in the CWU in the coming months, regardless of a yes vote, needs a proper head wobble.
The CWU agreeing to this shambles simply means RM will smell blood.

[k979aaa]

You get a vote on this s**t deal in times to come you may not!

Erm, right. We do get to vote on this. And irrespective of this vote we may not get a chance in the future, because anyone deluding themselves that RM will not continue attacks in the CWU in the coming months, regardless of a yes vote, needs a proper head wobble.
The CWU agreeing to this shambles simply means RM will smell blood.

Thing is it better to have an agreement or just wing it?

[nuisance]

Did you mean that we start later and deliver all the parcels that come in first and then when we come back put all the mail in the frames at the end of the shift ready for the next day - so that we take 2 days worth of mail plus the packets on the next day?

Say, the van arrives at 10.00am.
Most of us are out delivering the previous day's/ Saturday's mail.
We get back at, say, 12.00, sort it all.
Part timers go home at 1pm, full timers deliver parcels until, for example, 3pm.
Everybody starts at, whatever, say 7am the following day and goes out with the previous day's mail that's all thrown in.
It's just an idea I had that could work for the staff who want early starts/early finishes and for RM who now do not. The only losers would be the mail customers and no one's really bothered about them any more anyway, lol.

[claystones]

one point people are missing when the fittings go less indoor prep you wont put the mail into the fittings we could be delivering up to 90 mins extra outdoors

[DGH]

one point people are missing when the fittings go less indoor prep you wont put the mail into the fittings we could be delivering up to 90 mins extra outdoors

Yep.
It's going to be really s**t if you're on delivery, especially in the winter months.
But nobody who negotiated this deal will care much about that because whoopee-do!, they preserved grandfathered allowances and made a couple of other changes marginally less s**t than they might have been.

[postslippete]

one point people are missing when the fittings go less indoor prep you wont put the mail into the fittings we could be delivering up to 90 mins extra outdoors

Yes, that's the main reason why the company wants later starts - so that all the mail comes in one wave rather than two and we just bundle it up with a few missorts and D2Ds

It was on here a few years ago that you would need to be an octopus to handle all the bundles of mail that you take out with you!

[freespeech]

One thing I'd like to know is the legal position. The CWU do the collective bargaining for all associated grades and they now have an agreement with RM which has been ratified by the PEC. Surely that is sufficient legally and the ballot to staff is nothing more than union admin? Even if there is a no return I can't see RM returning to the table.

[DGH]

The agreement has to be ratified by the membership to have any standing. The CWU hierarchy cannot impose it on an unwilling membership.

[k979aaa]

The whole place is f****d thing is we at one time had a good job not now the asset strippers have arrived strike all you want to but that will not change the nature of the beast. People on here think they can change the world by withdrawing our labour? We tried that so what the hell are you all going to do now?