Talks have ended - no agreement : Added RM's improved offer to 1st post

[toonshola]

I’m absolutely gobsmacked people think this is an ok deal. Come back on here in December after you have delivered your last letter in the dark for a below inflation pay rise and your £1500 bribe has been spent and tell us all how good this deal is. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg, where’s the info on sick pay, annualised hours, pda big brother conduct technology, the apparent plan to have Mail centres do IPS/indoor prep thus increasing outdoor delivery times AGAIN?!
It can be argued this deal is actually worse than the deal offered before Xmas, weeks of talks and Ward has managed to bargain us a Worse deal. It’s incredible.

[SpacePhoenix]

the apparent plan to have Mail centres do IPS/indoor prep thus increasing outdoor delivery times AGAIN?!

That could perhaps partly explain why they want to keep PSMs in MCs and having the super-hubs, with all 2C packets and Tracked 48 going to the super-hubs to be sorted.

Can't see any hope of having us do the prep and indoor stuff in MCs unless every MC has a PSM to walk sort packets. Over all DOs in our area there's probably 900+ walks, there's no way that we'd have the room for that many prep frames, at best we could squeeze in half a dozen. For it to work we'd need to have machines capable of sorting and walk sequencing flats and letters together.

[LouBarlow]

The CWU will never agree to any deal that sees new starters sign up on worse conditions than existing staff as they know full well that these new starters will be reluctant to sign up to the union and pay their fees each week - why would they when they see legacy post-people around them getting better treatment for doing the same job?

This in turn leads to the death of the CWU within a generation, as old posties retire and the new breed carry on without union support. When they say they are fighting for our future, they mean their own. They are putting their own interests in front of yours at this point.

[TopperGas]

The CWU will never agree to any deal that sees new starters sign up on worse conditions than existing staff as they know full well that these new starters will be reluctant to sign up to the union and pay their fees each week - why would they when they see legacy post-people around them getting better treatment for doing the same job?

This in turn leads to the death of the CWU within a generation, as old posties retire and the new breed carry on without union support. When they say they are fighting for our future, they mean their own. They are putting their own interests in front of yours at this point.

It didn't stop me signing up when I first joined and was on lower pay for 12 months? I'm certainly not going to go on strike just so new starters can get a better offer. Regardless good luck to RM filling all the os vacancies on even less pay than we're on when they can't even retain staff on the present rate.

[Foxel]

What gives them the right to reject this deal without putting to the members...we're in a democracy!!!!

That's not how democracy (at least our version of it) works.

[Foxel]

Submit to any of these insults and everything we've thought for has been for nothing.

Royal Mail doesn't think you have a backbone and can be bought with a pathetic lump sum payment. Let's prove them wrong!

[Kenfandango]

The CWU will never agree to any deal that sees new starters sign up on worse conditions than existing staff as they know full well that these new starters will be reluctant to sign up to the union and pay their fees each week - why would they when they see legacy post-people around them getting better treatment for doing the same job?

As someone who started just under 2 years ago I'd like to point out that the CWU clearly haven't had an issue with this previously. Even in the time between getting my 6 month and my permanent contract, the wording changed from "perform any reasonable task" to "perform any task your manager deems you capable of." The old guard get paid 37 hours plus SA whether they're there or not, I get 30 hours with overtime I was assured would "always make you up to full time wage" until there's an OT ban and I don't, and I'm constantly chucked on walks with 3 days mail (today I only had 2... Plus 2 days oversized, trackeds and packets.) But hey, my manager thinks I'm capable of doing it so I have to take it all out and jump through hoops if I want to cut off because it's in my contract

[POSTMAN]

Added to 1st post.

offer.jpg

[rambo1]

That’s a bloody awful pay offer (both of them).

But what’s worse - RM would want the CWU to put both offers up to the membership knowing full well;

1.) It’d split the vote between the two offers and ‘no deal’.

2.) That a lot of members would be lured by the bigger lump sum with option B even though that’s by far the worse of the two.

At least with option A the 6% from April 2023 would apply to overtime and pension contributions etc and in theory compound the following years 2% up a bit.

I would say we should be looking for at least;

• £2,000 lump sum payable immediately
• 5% from 2023
• 5% from 2024

I know that’s not much better but it’s in the ballpark range of what RM are showing is available minus their accounting tricks.

One further point - I think the previous ‘final offer’ was potentially better because it would have forced the company to come to the table again in October.

Are the two offers on pay different?
£25k as example, forget the 2% we've already had.
2% is £500 , so £25,500 for 23
Then 6% of that is £1530 , so £27,030 for 24

6% of £25k is £1500 ,so £26,500 for 23
2% of £26,500 is £530, so £27,030 for 24

Difference is, you get £1500 extra (which you could get around £140 interest on if put away for 2 yrs) or £500 extra ( which could get you £45 interest if put away for 2yrs).

The £1500 lump is the better choice.
Obviously no tax calculation was done for this.

[Clappedoutpostie]

The Flexi hours bit is my favourite:

November offer - Max 2 hours a week
Aprils improved offer - Max 24 minutes per day, erm 24 x 5 is 120 minutes

[Shadedpostie]

That’s a bloody awful pay offer (both of them).

But what’s worse - RM would want the CWU to put both offers up to the membership knowing full well;

1.) It’d split the vote between the two offers and ‘no deal’.

2.) That a lot of members would be lured by the bigger lump sum with option B even though that’s by far the worse of the two.

At least with option A the 6% from April 2023 would apply to overtime and pension contributions etc and in theory compound the following years 2% up a bit.

I would say we should be looking for at least;

• £2,000 lump sum payable immediately
• 5% from 2023
• 5% from 2024

I know that’s not much better but it’s in the ballpark range of what RM are showing is available minus their accounting tricks.

One further point - I think the previous ‘final offer’ was potentially better because it would have forced the company to come to the table again in October.

Think fundamentally, every deal they have come out with after these talks are worse off than the last deal. That is the one constant Royal Mail has actually stuck with and basically told as much. The CWU are going to have a really hard time convincing people to strike again if this is the deal the company as come out with after 11 months of this. You'd be asking people to be burning a hell of a lot of money for a battle in which neither side has budged at all despite what's been said.

[Dorset Plodder]

Love the way Managers have been "Getting the message out"!

Don't normally give a shite about letting you know anything .... unless it's the RM Message.

Rumour has it Managers have been encouraged to get that message out and push for peer pressure (from Posties) to get the CWU to put it to a vote. Probably because they know a large number of Posties are so short sighted that they'd sell a kidney for a quick £500 bonus.

I'm no maths genius but 10% over 3 years looks like just over 3% a year? Is that meant to be a good deal? I don't bloody think so!

[Judgee]

The pay element of this seems pretty crap tbh and the sick pay changes should be removed, you can't punish people for being sick ffs!

The rest of it I could live with I guess?

Oh Thompson leaving should also be one of the conditions. He is incompetent and wouldn't know how to speak the truth if you drew him a diagram, neither the board or workforce has any faith in him!

[nuisance]

I would suck up the dreadful pay deal if they'd f-off with their detrimental changes. I'd go so far as to say that I wish that we'd never voted to strike over pay in the first place because it was exactly what Royal Mail wanted us to do so they could play out this agenda and we haven't been and won't be any better off financially for having gone through it.

All the changes though, they can jog on. All of them, I'm not voting for any of them unless they are in my favor, which none of them are.

[twoloops]

Move to a more flexible seasonal working pattern & half four finish, not for me, get those strike date announced, start with a week