An alternative view

[redlen]

The Alternative view title and missive from Dingo tells me that Dave Ward and Andy Fury needs to step aside - they are a stumbling block to progress being made

The PR guy should be sacked!

Step aside permanently

Their tenure has been nothing to shout about, one cock up after another

[N|M]

The Alternative view title and missive from Dingo tells me that Dave Ward and Andy Fury needs to step aside - they are a stumbling block to progress being made

The PR guy should be sacked!

Step aside permanently

Their tenure has been nothing to shout about, one cock up after another

The PR guy is that the one that was in the committee waving around a banner during ST grilling ?

[redlen]

Chris Webb

He only got the job because he was Dave Wards campaign manager for the General Secretary Position.
Cronyism

[Shadedpostie]

Nothing Royal Mail are doing breaches employment law.
Why do you think your contract of employment is being breached?

I'd rather get a qualified employment law expert to answer that thanks, mediated by the union. Have you seen the way the repick has been conducted. You can't tell me there aren't even grey areas that aren't potentially crossing the line there.
As you well know, law is always subjective anyway. Thanks for your input but totally unhelpful.

They are telling you what work is assigned to you when it comes to a repick. There's nothing illegal about it. Unfair? Possibly. But no different to what other employers tell you to what needs doing. Only thing they can't force you to do is go over your time currently.

[Postee2]

Nothing Royal Mail are doing breaches employment law.
Why do you think your contract of employment is being breached?

I'd rather get a qualified employment law expert to answer that thanks, mediated by the union. Have you seen the way the repick has been conducted. You can't tell me there aren't even grey areas that aren't potentially crossing the line there.
As you well know, law is always subjective anyway. Thanks for your input but totally unhelpful.

They are telling you what work is assigned to you when it comes to a repick. There's nothing illegal about it. Unfair? Possibly. But no different to what other employers tell you to what needs doing. Only thing they can't force you to do is go over your time currently.
[/quote
Again, respectfully I am simply saying there may be a case to investigate that's all. I'm not making any assertions whatsoever. But when you have some people seemingly given official duties and others not, without any selection criteria being clarified, when people are being displaced and replaced when work is there, when revisions have been worked out in a way that clearly seems unfair, than all I am saying is surely it needs looking at to check by somebody properly qualified.
You say it may be unfair. Clearly it does appear unfair. That in itself could be justification.
All I'm saying is if this is potentially a route to go down, to limit or prevent strikes to both protect the business and us, surely it should be considered, that's all.
I repeat I'm making absolutely no claims. I'm not an employment law expert but unless you are too, . . . .we simply can not say for certain.

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Well the so called union appointed legal experts have been pants up to now.

Having injunctions against them and the wording on ballot papers.
Not to mention the atrocious agreement with holiday pay and overtime to the financial detriment of the employees

Seems they would be better placed contacting citizens advice
And the law is based on facts presented, not subjective opinions

[chrisj]

The holiday pay is curious one - sone folks have taken legal action against RM or used ACAS and they are being compensated - on the quiet; to prevent a run...

The Union appears not to like overtimes - rate lower after 20 hours and overtime holiday pay subject to constraints

[redlen]

The CWU originally promised to take half a dozen claims and present them to the Tribunal Service as a collective action on behalf of all employees.

They bottled it at the last minute and then expected employees to go through the legal process themselves with no legal training.

[Postee2]

Well the so called union appointed legal experts have been pants up to now.

Having injunctions against them and the wording on ballot papers.
Not to mention the atrocious agreement with holiday pay and overtime to the financial detriment of the employees

Seems they would be better placed contacting citizens advice
And the law is based on facts presented, not subjective opinions

Is gas lighting a hobby for you ? No, if law (including employment law) was that simple, nobody would require a solicitor. It's an extremely complex area, where subjectivity comes into play depending on people's varying perceptions and circumstances. Things presented as facts as everybody knows, (especially with recent parliamentary events), are not always true to form and can be argued against.
That's why cases go to tribunal, that's why people use employment law experts.
If you are an employment law expert you would know what I am saying is true.
If you aren't an employment law expert, why do you you think you are qualified to make an outright assertion.

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Because we have an adversarial justice system, not inquisitorial that requires a judge as the final authority on the facts presented.

Basically who is better at reading and presenting the law on the day

Many people every day put cases to a judge as a Litigant in Person with no representation

[Postee2]

Because we have an adversarial justice system, not inquisitorial that requires a judge as the final authority on the facts presented.

Basically who is better at reading and presenting the law on the day

Many people every day put cases to a judge as a Litigant in Person with no representation

Again, you've presented a fact, and one you've twisted and quite frankly in this context got completely wrong.

Whilst uk criminal law may be more adversarial, employment law is neither of the two and could well be argued to be more inquisitorial as the judge takes a much more active role.

I've got nothing against you, but you definitely seem to get a kick out of arguing for the sake of it.
People on here are desperately worried for their jobs, their livelihoods, their families and their well being including me.
Please be more respectful of that.

[redlen]

Judges in both criminal and civil law do not take an active roll. Though they will clarify points of law brought up. You have been watching to much Judge John Deed.

They can only base their decision on Stare decisis or Statute
Though will agree civil law is on the balance of probability and criminal law reasonable doubt.

You might find it useful to google Obiter Dictum and Ratio decidendi

[Postee2]

Judges in both criminal and civil law do not take an active roll. Though they will clarify points of law brought up. You have been watching to much Judge John Deed.

They can only base their decision on Stare decisis or Statute
Though will agree civil law is on the balance of probability and criminal law reasonable doubt.

You might find it useful to google Obiter Dictum and Ratio decidendi

From the horses mouth at https://www.judiciary.uk

". . . . Generally speaking, most tribunals take an inquisitorial approach . . . . . "

You are a gas lighter. I won't respond to anything else you say.

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Because they debate the evidence presented and if it complies with Statute or precedent.
That is why I referenced Balance or Probability with Civil Law
Legal argument are conducted by opposing counsel

It is one thing trawling through Google and another legal text books.

Tribunals are courts of law (Lord Denning)

UK/English Common law is based on Roman Law, as in Civil Law

But will agree discussion is over

[postieblueshirt]

Because they debate the evidence presented and if it complies with Statute or precedent.

It is one thing trawling through Google and another legal text books.

Tribunals are courts of law (Lord Denning)

UK Common law is based on Roman Law, as in Civil Law

But will agree discussion is over

So what role do you hold in royal mail?.If you are a postman then why are you a postman? I do this job coz I'm thick and had fun at school instead of learning, hindsight is a wonderful thing.But you seem way overqualified for this job.