An alternative view

[Martin Walsh]

The accounts of all public limited companies are independently audited.

If any company attempts to lie the directors can ultimately end up in jail.

You really think that we are somehow giving Royal Mail a free ride by accepting they have financial issues ? You don’t think we seen the problems.

Due to obviously laws about things like impacts on share prices I and others needs to be careful about comments.

However the threat is real.

Do they need an agreement ? Yes

However they also need to reduce costs hence why the revision targets are non negotiable as it is the COMs and ROD budget.

Like I said the next few days are vital.

[Woody Guthrie]

If you forget about what RM may or may not be lying about nobody honestly can deny that the workload coming through the door is the lowest we've seen for 20 years and has been in free fall since last summer.

Whose fault that would be is pretty irrelevant because in anyone's book that decline in workload spells financial trouble in any company that cannot cut its costs to match.

I'm not an RM apologist or a manager and I blame the board and management structure entirely for the predicament we're in but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Can anyone genuinely see letters volume increasing ever again?
Given the bleak economic outlook are parcels going to grow significantly?

Unfortunately we need to face this reality and not pretend the business is booming and nothing should change.

[sixfoottwo]

The accounts of all public limited companies are independently audited.

If any company attempts to lie the directors can ultimately end up in jail.

You really think that we are somehow giving Royal Mail a free ride by accepting they have financial issues ? You don’t think we seen the problems.

Due to obviously laws about things like impacts on share prices I and others needs to be careful about comments.

However the threat is real.

Do they need an agreement ? Yes

However they also need to reduce costs hence why the revision targets are non negotiable as it is the COMs and ROD budget.

Like I said the next few days are vital.

Well that just about sums everything up doesn't it in a nutshell

Shafted due to the gross mismanagement but let the tossers keep paying themselves millions and then we'll take the hit a disgrace.

[toonshola]

If you forget about what RM may or may not be lying about nobody honestly can deny that the workload coming through the door is the lowest we've seen for 20 years and has been in free fall since last summer.

Whose fault that would be is pretty irrelevant because in anyone's book that decline in workload spells financial trouble in any company that cannot cut its costs to match.

I'm not an RM apologist or a manager and I blame the board and management structure entirely for the predicament we're in but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Can anyone genuinely see letters volume increasing ever again?
Given the bleak economic outlook are parcels going to grow significantly?

Unfortunately we need to face this reality and not pretend the business is booming and nothing should change.

I get what your saying and agree with a lot of it. The workload has definitely dropped BUT this doesn’t enable every duty to have an extra 50 mins outdoor work put on it as is the case in our office. I’ve spent the last 3 months doing the 50 minutes lapsing first(soon to become permanent lapsing as per revision) and then rotating leaving loops of mail in so I can finish on time. I’m under 40, work at what most would say is a fast pace and I cannot do the extra work that is being asked day in day out unless I use roller blades or start sprinting. This is my main gripe with the union, Martin Dave and others have agreed a workload which is totally unreasonable for a human being to achieve day in day out without keeling over and collapsing, those in these negotiations and at the top of the union certainly couldn’t do these deliveries so don’t sign us up to it then ask us to be greatful.

[sixfoottwo]

If you forget about what RM may or may not be lying about nobody honestly can deny that the workload coming through the door is the lowest we've seen for 20 years and has been in free fall since last summer.

Whose fault that would be is pretty irrelevant because in anyone's book that decline in workload spells financial trouble in any company that cannot cut its costs to match.

I'm not an RM apologist or a manager and I blame the board and management structure entirely for the predicament we're in but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Can anyone genuinely see letters volume increasing ever again?
Given the bleak economic outlook are parcels going to grow significantly?

Unfortunately we need to face this reality and not pretend the business is booming and nothing should change.

I get what your saying and agree with a lot of it. The workload has definitely dropped BUT this doesn’t enable every duty to have an extra 50 mins outdoor work put on it as is the case in our office. I’ve spent the last 3 months doing the 50 minutes lapsing first(soon to become permanent lapsing as per revision) and then rotating leaving loops of mail in so I can finish on time. I’m under 40, work at what most would say is a fast pace and I cannot do the extra work that is being asked day in day out unless I use roller blades or start sprinting. This is my main gripe with the union, Martin Dave and others have agreed a workload which is totally unreasonable for a human being to achieve day in day out without keeling over and collapsing, those in these negotiations and at the top of the union certainly couldn’t do these deliveries so don’t sign us up to it then ask us to be greatful.

Spot on toonshola.

Similar with our office, they have added 40 mins onto ours when even before this we were nowhere near completing 2 full duties and we are not slow.

What gets me aswell is speaking to some others in the office they have been given 10-15mins tops on theirs, absolute joke.

We work our hours and that's it but it still narks you as like some I still have some self pride.

[Woody Guthrie]

This is my main gripe with the union, Martin Dave and others have agreed a workload which is totally unreasonable for a human being to achieve day in day out without keeling over and collapsing

Unfortunately this is not down to Martin or Dave.
It's down to the union at local level.

In my office the vast majority of us are finishing early even with lapsing and I'm well above 40. We've had full involvement in our revision, our start times and attendance patterns aren't changing and I suspect even after the revision most will still have some scope to finish early although not as much obviously.

What Martin, Dave and Co are guilty of is allowing this huge disparity between offices because there is still no top down accountability in the union, you're either "strong" or you're "weak" despite the fact you pay the same subs.

[mjd24]

If you forget about what RM may or may not be lying about nobody honestly can deny that the workload coming through the door is the lowest we've seen for 20 years and has been in free fall since last summer.

Whose fault that would be is pretty irrelevant because in anyone's book that decline in workload spells financial trouble in any company that cannot cut its costs to match.

I'm not an RM apologist or a manager and I blame the board and management structure entirely for the predicament we're in but that doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Can anyone genuinely see letters volume increasing ever again?
Given the bleak economic outlook are parcels going to grow significantly?

Unfortunately we need to face this reality and not pretend the business is booming and nothing should change.

Genuine question- do the recent huge increases in the cost of stamps someway make up for the drop in volume of mail?

[Hyrrokkin]

Amazing
RM piss hundred's of millions of revenue we made on
Shareholder Dividends
Pointless Superhubs
Managers bonuses/Directors saleries etc etc
Agency
Plus many other myriad 'let's see how much money we can piss away schemes'
But hey ho no point complaining now accept it as is and deal with it by getting shafted every day with Executive Action
Not our fault but we better let them get on with it in case we become another 'Woolworths'
Hey just the way it is
Mail volumes have fallin since the pandemic (which was a weird,out of nowhere special case likely not to happen again anytime soon) and the economy might be struggling but eventually it will recover/grow and mail volumes will increase again

Pathetic

Martin the CWU better pull some deal out of the hat because everyone is just sick and tired of this

[Woody Guthrie]

Genuine question- do the recent huge increases in the cost of stamps someway make up for the drop in volume of mail?

I doubt it.
How many first class stamps do you see on a daily basis?

[mjd24]

Genuine question- do the recent huge increases in the cost of stamps someway make up for the drop in volume of mail?

I doubt it.
How many first class stamps do you see on a daily basis?

Not many at all. So all the other stuff such as the bulk council tax bills last week, the price of them hasnt gone up too?

[Clappedoutpostie]

This is my main gripe with the union, Martin Dave and others have agreed a workload which is totally unreasonable for a human being to achieve day in day out without keeling over and collapsing

Unfortunately this is not down to Martin or Dave.
It's down to the union at local level.

In my office the vast majority of us are finishing early even with lapsing and I'm well above 40. We've had full involvement in our revision, our start times and attendance patterns aren't changing and I suspect even after the revision most will still have some scope to finish early although not as much obviously.

What Martin, Dave and Co are guilty of is allowing this huge disparity between offices because there is still no top down accountability in the union, you're either "strong" or you're "weak" despite the fact you pay the same subs.

Understand all that however wasn’t the official union line that reps didn’t get involved with these revisions. Are you saying the ones who broke ranks from that are having better outcomes?

[guardianangel]

The cwu have truly had the wool pulled over their eyes,there is a reason they split the company into 2, letters and parcels,their real motive is to screw the workers for more profit and get rid of the loss making letters,id rather the company go belly up than be treated like dirt for a pittance which is what is actually happening here even with the union saying they've called off the attack dogs ,they haven't,if they cant afford to run the letters make us all redundant its a better way than putting us through this s--t,the Royal Mail isn't the be all and end all and is not the respected ,well paid, good pension job it use to be,so i wish the cwu would stop with this saving good jobs for future generations,its not good and they are not.

[guardianangel]

Amazing
RM piss hundred's of millions of revenue we made on
Shareholder Dividends
Pointless Superhubs
Managers bonuses/Directors saleries etc etc
Agency
Plus many other myriad 'let's see how much money we can piss away schemes'
But hey ho no point complaining now accept it as is and deal with it by getting shafted every day with Executive Action
Not our fault but we better let them get on with it in case we become another 'Woolworths'
Hey just the way it is
Mail volumes have fallin since the pandemic (which was a weird,out of nowhere special case likely not to happen again anytime soon) and the economy might be struggling but eventually it will recover/grow and mail volumes will increase again

Pathetic

Martin the CWU better pull some deal out of the hat because everyone is just sick and tired of this

well said,they really do sound like the Tory party through covid ,missing millions and who has to pay ,the people at the bottom ,the union should be fighting for us not working with them.

[clashcityrocker]

.... hence why the revision targets are non negotiable as it is the COMs and ROD budget.

If i remember correctly we had a 3 year flight path to improve efficiency under the last agreement.
Are the new revision targets the same as the old ones or have the goalposts been moved?

Given that apparently the efficiency improvements didn't materialise then (and consequently neither did the savings) why does anyone imagine they are going to materialise this time?

[guardianangel]

3. If we walked away from talks now and served action do you think both of the above will still be on the table ?

Giving notice for strike action in a fortnight's time, which would be called off if a deal was reached beforehand, would concentrate minds on both sides to try to reach an agreement.

We are currently pissing away the ballot result instructing the union to take strike action. With the last strike day taking place in December last year it will, after this further extension for talks, be at least April before we can take further action against RM. The first ballot was completely wasted, at a huge cost to the CWU members, with pointless one or two day strikes. The union was not professional enough to gather the data to allow rolling functional strike action.

I don't care a jot if RM are losing money and go under. If they can't run their business in a way that they can pay their bills (including the pay bill increasing with inflation) then they deserve to go under, however if city analysts believed that this was a likely prospect then I doubt that they would be recommending that people either buy RM stock, or at least hold on to the stock that they have.

Currently, there is almost as much anger towards the incompetent CWU leadership as there is towards the cowboys running RM into the ground. Time for the union to demonstrate that someone actually has a clue about how to get a good settlement for their members, or many of those members are going to decide that their union subs look very poor value for money.