RMCtv : Update on CWU talks - changes to proposals on certain allowances

[Eduardo]

That's because all the new starts since November have been on monthly pay at £11.59 per hour with no delivery supplement, no rris , less holidays, crap sick pay get ect. This is the new reality, there is a two tier work place now in RM. The union have been f****d over well and truely, I'm sad to say. Dave is WAY out his depth. I think it Terry was still there it would be a different outcome. For the first time I think yous have lost and lost big and that's very sad. I hope 100% I'm wrong.

Have you further evidence to back this claim up?

[Ppat98]

The receiving customer doesn't care if they don't get their letters for a couple of days, most don't even notice. The Tracked parcels will get delivered, the untracked ones, nobody cares about. Basically they won't bloody care.... So don't count on their support. Look at the rail strikes, they don't care until affects them. Union needs to get a deal now.

Exactly, Halfhappy has a point though. If the businesse's lose faith in Rm. Then Rm could lose contract's but who could replace Rm to deliver letters? Seem's like businesse's sending letters are stuck with Rm. Whisel don't deliver anymore do they? And when they did, it was only to limited areas.

From what I read Curry's was the only business to cut ties. There could have been more though. That's strictly parcels.

3 or 4 day rolling strikes over Valentine's Day & Mother's Day would do some damage. Rm would lose contract's with the flower companies like bloom & wild. The Union need to up the ante.

[SpacePhoenix]

3 or 4 day rolling strikes over Valentine's Day & Mother's Day would do some damage. Rm would lose contract's with the flower companies like bloom & wild. The Union need to up the ante.

Not sure that Valentines day is doable for a strike day with the requirement to re-ballot, think the current ballot expires around about then

[FOST]

TPM isn't a freebie....we get it for doing certain maintenance and repairs we're trained to do on the machines, that otherwise would have to be done by much higher-paid engineers.

AKA...money for old rope.

Cheers.
Thanks for the support.

Tory.

[Tman]

Odd reply. Is "Tory" some sort of standard riposte for you?

[Shadedpostie]

Pretty much done with these little victories the union are celebrating even though these changes RM are conceding on only affecting small minority of workforce. Like seriously, who the heck is still even getting these allowances??? Same with the statement they made with RM not using agency workers, even though we still have them here in our office because loads are either sick or f****d off entirely now. Most being the youngest of us, basically the so called future of Royal Mail. Have you seen the mail volume recently??? Until they give up on the major changes such as the commit to deliver, sick pay, and later starts, it means nothing. Start by bringing the new starters wages to those that are on those that are on the allowances. You basically already have a two tier workforce whilst you continue to accept one workforce getting more money for practically the same job. Same with the stupid workplace coach payment, pay one person money when they've not even trained a single new recruit since they got the position. We haven't gained a single thing since we have started this dispute, just protecting what we have already had. It's not even a negotiation if one side is gaining from it.

[Halfhappy]

With light mail ahead for awhile, is striking gonna be as effect?

Long term and sustained IA would be a very big issue for many businesses. I mean, as a business owner, why would you not switch to a different courier if this continued?

That could happen, 1 of the big questions is. Are Rm able to cope with further strike on light mail? They no doubt learned a few lessons during Christmas & we be better at setting up plans to cover strikes.

If so the union may need to up the ante & do 3 or 4 day rolling strikes. Cause if the mail volume is set to stay like this for months ahead then the 1 or 2 day's probably won't cut it.

I don't know, I'm just trying to be realistic with the possible outcomes.

Another big concern is the union are fighting for a 18 month contract, which will fly by. So will we potentially be going through this again after the contract's up. Surely they should of gone for a longer contract.

Whether RM can cope with the strikes, or not, is irrelevant. The damage is caused by the constant cloud of IA looming over the business, making the service unreliable. Posties look at these strikes from inside the business, a customer does not have this point of view. All they know is they're being foretold of possible delay due IA. No business can operate like that.

The receiving customer doesn't care if they don't get their letters for a couple of days, most don't even notice. The Tracked parcels will get delivered, the untracked ones, nobody cares about. Basically they won't bloody care.... So don't count on their support. Look at the rail strikes, they don't care until affects them. Union needs to get a deal now.

The receiving customer is not what RM is concerned about. It's the sending customers with large contracts, that disruption and delay will effect. Regardless of what RM prioritise, the fact of the matter is RM is having to operate under uncertainty. Customers will not use a business that has to continuously warn of delays due to strike action. Although public support is nice, it's not what will win this, if that was the case, RM would've broke before Christmas. We are not in the same scenario as the railways, as their customers are the public, ours is business. Also, the government is indemnifying rail companies using our money, so there is no financial loss to rail employers, unlike RM who is losing both money and business. RM need to get a deal now, hence the concessions they've made, the back tracking on parts of the 'the best and final offer'.

[Halfhappy]

Double

[robson144]

Pretty much done with these little victories the union are celebrating even though these changes RM are conceding on only affecting small minority of workforce. Like seriously, who the heck is still even getting these allowances??? Same with the statement they made with RM not using agency workers, even though we still have them here in our office because loads are either sick or f****d off entirely now. Most being the youngest of us, basically the so called future of Royal Mail. Have you seen the mail volume recently??? Until they give up on the major changes such as the commit to deliver, sick pay, and later starts, it means nothing. Start by bringing the new starters wages to those that are on those that are on the allowances. You basically already have a two tier workforce whilst you continue to accept one workforce getting more money for practically the same job. Same with the stupid workplace coach payment, pay one person money when they've not even trained a single new recruit since they got the position. We haven't gained a single thing since we have started this dispute, just protecting what we have already had. It's not even a negotiation if one side is gaining from it.

[Halfhappy]

The receiving customer doesn't care if they don't get their letters for a couple of days, most don't even notice. The Tracked parcels will get delivered, the untracked ones, nobody cares about. Basically they won't bloody care.... So don't count on their support. Look at the rail strikes, they don't care until affects them. Union needs to get a deal now.

Exactly, Halfhappy has a point though. If the businesse's lose faith in Rm. Then Rm could lose contract's but who could replace Rm to deliver letters? Seem's like businesse's sending letters are stuck with Rm. Whisel don't deliver anymore do they? And when they did, it was only to limited areas.

From what I read Curry's was the only business to cut ties. There could have been more though. That's strictly parcels.

3 or 4 day rolling strikes over Valentine's Day & Mother's Day would do some damage. Rm would lose contract's with the flower companies like bloom & wild. The Union need to up the ante.

Again, this is looking at things from the inside inside the business. The mentality that a dispute can only be won by causing a backlog during an annual event, is misguided. If this was the case RM wouldn't even be talking now, let alone making concessions. They'd be doing whatever they like, however they want to, in full knowledge they've 11mths till the next event. Instead they're still negotiating and clearly trying to reach some sort of compromise.

The union are treading a fine line of keeping the longevity of this dispute sustainable, for many of the members who aren't in the position to readily 'up the ante'.

[Halfhappy]

Pretty much done with these little victories the union are celebrating even though these changes RM are conceding on only affecting small minority of workforce. Like seriously, who the heck is still even getting these allowances??? Same with the statement they made with RM not using agency workers, even though we still have them here in our office because loads are either sick or f****d off entirely now. Most being the youngest of us, basically the so called future of Royal Mail. Have you seen the mail volume recently??? Until they give up on the major changes such as the commit to deliver, sick pay, and later starts, it means nothing. Start by bringing the new starters wages to those that are on those that are on the allowances. You basically already have a two tier workforce whilst you continue to accept one workforce getting more money for practically the same job. Same with the stupid workplace coach payment, pay one person money when they've not even trained a single new recruit since they got the position. We haven't gained a single thing since we have started this dispute, just protecting what we have already had. It's not even a negotiation if one side is gaining from it.

Unfortunately, I think this is all you're going to see until the result of the next ballot. I can't see any advantage for RM to do anything other than drip feed crumbs, until they've seen the results. Till then, they'll make small concessions to try and hold back further action. If the vote comes back with a high turnout and a overwhelming 'yes', I imagine things will progress to a resolution pretty fast. In the eyes of RM there is absolutely no reason to currently offer anything substantially different, when in a months time, there's the possibility the CWU may be unable to take IA action, however unlikely that looks.

[grchpo]

Haven't many companies left RM to use different couriers only to come back or say they will come back so RM won't worry cos they know we will sort it out on overtime so an overtime strike would really f** k them up

[Halfhappy]

Haven't many companies left RM to use different couriers only to come back or say they will come back so RM won't worry cos they know we will sort it out on overtime so an overtime strike would really f** k them up

Every customer that does that, is lost custom, regardless of whether they come back or not. What sort of business is going to continually take these hits, week after week, month after month? I'm under no illusion that RM still holds the monopoly in this sector, dwarfing it's competition in reach and infrastructure. The threat of long-term disruption, causing delays and uncertainty is not a sustainable business model. Backlogs, clearing using overtime, is irrelevant, when you're a business and all you see, hear and read is there's going to be another 48hr postal strike.

[TopperGas]

Haven't many companies left RM to use different couriers only to come back or say they will come back so RM won't worry cos they know we will sort it out on overtime so an overtime strike would really f** k them up

Every customer that does that, is lost custom, regardless of whether they come back or not. What sort of business is going to continually take these hits, week after week, month after month? I'm under no illusion that RM still holds the monopoly in this sector, dwarfing it's competition in reach and infrastructure. The threat of long-term disruption, causing delays and uncertainty is not a sustainable business model. Backlogs, clearing using overtime, is irrelevant, when you're a business and all you see, hear and read is there's going to be another 48hr postal strike.

I'm guessing they just have to take it on the chin until the dispute is finally over, as the likes of EVRI are so hopeless when it comes to nationwide deliveries, and, I assume, Amazon only interested in delivering their own packets/parcels. They'll be putting pressure on RM to agree a deal but no doubt they'll be telling their customers if they can agree a deal on their teams they'll be able to cut their prices or, at least, not increase them.

[pinstripe]

Every customer that does that, is lost custom, regardless of whether they come back or not. What sort of business is going to continually take these hits, week after week, month after month?

While I agree you, we need to remember that RM are trying to throw away 40% of their income to concentrate solely on packets. Lost custom doesn’t seem as important as breaking the union