The Royal Mail Electric Van Scam - Broke by 2030...?!

[posted]

The fact is your just polluting other parts of the world this is not green it is like off shoring work this is a scam the same scam they will dictate in 2030 for all cars and your boilers central heating. Problem is we elected these morons and this is nothing to do with the EU they abbtraily decided this post BREXIT.

This was in the making well before 2016. Brexit has nothing to do with it.
Lithium mines have existed for some time too, where do you think battery chemistry comes from with whichever device you’re using now. Obviously the rate at which lithium is now being mined is exponentially more and will increase. New discoveries are being made and car plants want to source from nearest. Hungary has one, Portugal has made a discovery (but not allowed to operate yet), Chile & Mexico region are probably most concentrated areas of battery grade Lithium supply. Finally Australia is also mineral rich, just not sure if battery grade REM.

Other ingredients depending battery tech are nickel, manganese and cobalt

The alternative is the status quo, we stick with fossil fuel and pump out tailpipe emissions on an individual level at the kerbside?

To extract that lithium requires a lot of energy and the half life of a lithium cell is 3 to 7 years dependent on conditions temperature and use. And to recycle this what the hell is the cost of this? Sorry but people were told to buy diesel cars they jacked up the tax on emissions and some clown said they use cheat devices, And everybody gets a phone call about how your auto maker has lost you money can can scam you nice one!

Plenty of old Nissan leafs and Tesla Model S out there close to a decade old with in excess of 100k miles on clock and battery degradation is fine, at above the 70-80% range. That’s old battery and motor tech too. Things have improved in last decade and will continue to do.

Waste materials will have its own industry as there already exists now. Battery manufacturers will be encouraged to use materials that can be reused and retain value.

[posted]

Here the local grid won't be able to cope. One road has already had to be upgraded just to cope with current demand, and that's without dozens, if not hundreds of EV chargers in use.

It's a load of bull that we can cope with just renewables. When we have really cold weather, the electric production from wind drops off massively and when we get lots of cloud, it reduces the output of solar. When we had really hot weather, the generation of nuclear power gets cut as the water used for cooling gets too hot. Until we have a viable method of storing excess energy generated by renewables, we still need gas and coal fired power stations in reserve. They can't be just turned on with the flick of a switch so they have to be always running to some degree. Many places are finding that falling water levels in rivers and reservoirs is compromising the generation of hydro electric power.

How do you charge an EV using solar power at night?

What about the environmental impact of the mining and processing of rare earth metals used for various renewable energies and EV car batteries? Would there even be enough rare earth metals?

Who said we can cope with just renewables?
Erm who suggested charging using solar at night? Let me know when you find a way (other than stored energy)
Enough REM? I bet somebody like you said that about oil ~150 years ago

[posted]

When you actually take note of how many vehicles are on our roads (and I'm not in a city), then I think we're in for some major power cuts in the 2030's, as currently (no pun intended) we don't generate nearly enough electricity to be all plugging our cars in all night.

When you take into account we don’t all turn up to the petrol station at the same time…
Instead of the tabloids or whatever scaremongering you’ve seen, (and I mean it in nicest way possible) have a read of what head of National Grid says and their plans cope.

There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/j ... ctric-cars

EV users don’t charge every day.
Most who charge at home, do so at night when load is flat and low
Many are investing in home solar.

We don't all turn up to the petrol station at the same time because most cars can do between 500 and 900miles on a full tank. Appreciate not everyone fills to the brim every time but it's a lot more than 100 to 300 miles to a full charge. As far as the national grid coping. Wouldn't the fact most will be charging their cars at night mean that night time load is no longer low? As for people charging their cars from home solar. Think that's a middle class suburban dream and even then would require huge battery storage capabilities as it's not sunny at night. 8 yrs goes in a flash and I just think we are nowhere near ready to make every new car EV.

My car does about 120 miles, in winter using heating.
I don’t even charge that every day. I’ve done just shy of 1400 miles in the less than 2 months I’ve had mine. Included one day of 130 miles each way with a charger at the destination
Anybody doing more miles will either buy a car that can do that or hold out until they’re available at a reasonable price.
People are expecting direct replacement like yesterday. Most often it’s those that haven’t experienced using one for a period of time.

Average annual mileage for private cars is 8,000. Let’s bump that up to 10k miles/pa
That’s less than 200 miles a week.
Either charge it a bit each night or 2-3 times a week. Not everybody is going to be plugging in at the same time even if it is at night and wanting (or able) to charge from flat to full.

It’s about flattening the peak curve. As mentioned elsewhere by somebody, we’re still going to have coal and nuclear power to provide the base load which can’t easily be turned off or fired up quickly.

So as long as peak capacity is say 50 Giga Watts (I don’t know actual figure) during day and currently base load at night is say 25 GW then that gives you 25 MW capacity at night.

Interesting article here of you want to read about it

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorri ... anagement/

[milly]

When you actually take note of how many vehicles are on our roads (and I'm not in a city), then I think we're in for some major power cuts in the 2030's, as currently (no pun intended) we don't generate nearly enough electricity to be all plugging our cars in all night.

When you take into account we don’t all turn up to the petrol station at the same time…
Instead of the tabloids or whatever scaremongering you’ve seen, (and I mean it in nicest way possible) have a read of what head of National Grid says and their plans cope.

There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/j ... ctric-cars

EV users don’t charge every day.
Most who charge at home, do so at night when load is flat and low
Many are investing in home solar.

We don't all turn up to the petrol station at the same time because most cars can do between 500 and 900miles on a full tank. Appreciate not everyone fills to the brim every time but it's a lot more than 100 to 300 miles to a full charge. As far as the national grid coping. Wouldn't the fact most will be charging their cars at night mean that night time load is no longer low? As for people charging their cars from home solar. Think that's a middle class suburban dream and even then would require huge battery storage capabilities as it's not sunny at night. 8 yrs goes in a flash and I just think we are nowhere near ready to make every new car EV.

My car does about 120 miles, in winter using heating.
I don’t even charge that every day. I’ve done just shy of 1400 miles in the less than 2 months I’ve had mine. Included one day of 130 miles each way with a charger at the destination
Anybody doing more miles will either buy a car that can do that or hold out until they’re available at a reasonable price.
People are expecting direct replacement like yesterday. Most often it’s those that haven’t experienced using one for a period of time.

Average annual mileage for private cars is 8,000. Let’s bump that up to 10k miles/pa
That’s less than 200 miles a week.
Either charge it a bit each night or 2-3 times a week. Not everybody is going to be plugging in at the same time even if it is at night and wanting (or able) to charge from flat to full.

It’s about flattening the peak curve. As mentioned elsewhere by somebody, we’re still going to have coal and nuclear power to provide the base load which can’t easily be turned off or fired up quickly.

So as long as peak capacity is say 50 Giga Watts (I don’t know actual figure) during day and currently base load at night is say 25 GW then that gives you 25 MW capacity at night.

Interesting article here of you want to read about it

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorri ... anagement/

At current World Mining production it is impossible to produce enough material to electrify the World this is why the TBTB are trying to nudge people away from using Cars with ULEZ and 15 minute Cities.
"You will own nothing and be happy".

[posted]

When you actually take note of how many vehicles are on our roads (and I'm not in a city), then I think we're in for some major power cuts in the 2030's, as currently (no pun intended) we don't generate nearly enough electricity to be all plugging our cars in all night.

When you take into account we don’t all turn up to the petrol station at the same time…
Instead of the tabloids or whatever scaremongering you’ve seen, (and I mean it in nicest way possible) have a read of what head of National Grid says and their plans cope.

There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/j ... ctric-cars

EV users don’t charge every day.
Most who charge at home, do so at night when load is flat and low
Many are investing in home solar.

We don't all turn up to the petrol station at the same time because most cars can do between 500 and 900miles on a full tank. Appreciate not everyone fills to the brim every time but it's a lot more than 100 to 300 miles to a full charge. As far as the national grid coping. Wouldn't the fact most will be charging their cars at night mean that night time load is no longer low? As for people charging their cars from home solar. Think that's a middle class suburban dream and even then would require huge battery storage capabilities as it's not sunny at night. 8 yrs goes in a flash and I just think we are nowhere near ready to make every new car EV.

My car does about 120 miles, in winter using heating.
I don’t even charge that every day. I’ve done just shy of 1400 miles in the less than 2 months I’ve had mine. Included one day of 130 miles each way with a charger at the destination
Anybody doing more miles will either buy a car that can do that or hold out until they’re available at a reasonable price.
People are expecting direct replacement like yesterday. Most often it’s those that haven’t experienced using one for a period of time.

Average annual mileage for private cars is 8,000. Let’s bump that up to 10k miles/pa
That’s less than 200 miles a week.
Either charge it a bit each night or 2-3 times a week. Not everybody is going to be plugging in at the same time even if it is at night and wanting (or able) to charge from flat to full.

It’s about flattening the peak curve. As mentioned elsewhere by somebody, we’re still going to have coal and nuclear power to provide the base load which can’t easily be turned off or fired up quickly.

So as long as peak capacity is say 50 Giga Watts (I don’t know actual figure) during day and currently base load at night is say 25 GW then that gives you 25 MW capacity at night.

Interesting article here of you want to read about it

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorri ... anagement/

At current World Mining production it is impossible to produce enough material to electrify the World this is why the TBTB are trying to nudge people away from using Cars with ULEZ and 15 minute Cities.
"You will own nothing and be happy".

Not sure what TBTB is but the own nothing approach actually works for a lot of people, increasingly (most young and/or single).
Traditionally a car is a sort of commodity, albeit a very poor value one. Almost never increases in value, you have to spend more money on it, it’s prone to failure and spend most of the time doing nothing (parked up).

Come along Uber and others and it’s increasingly seen as a utility for transportation. Don’t need to own one, just pay for what you need and none of the headache. I think driverless cars will speed that up as but that’s a different story but the point being that car ownership is increasingly becoming less appealing. Uber is one thing but need better designed cities and better public transport and other modal access.

[milly]

Not sure what TBTB is but the own nothing approach actually works for a lot of people, increasingly (most young and/or single).
Traditionally a car is a sort of commodity, albeit a very poor value one. Almost never increases in value, you have to spend more money on it, it’s prone to failure and spend most of the time doing nothing (parked up).

Come along Uber and others and it’s increasingly seen as a utility for transportation. Don’t need to own one, just pay for what you need and none of the headache. I think driverless cars will speed that up as but that’s a different story but the point being that car ownership is increasingly becoming less appealing. Uber is one thing but need better designed cities and better public transport and other modal access.

Oh, I take it you are a big fan of Klaus and the WEF and their wish to micro-manage every aspect of our lives.
I prefer the freedom of owning my own Car so I can go where I want when I want, you can't put a price on the freedom a Motor Car offers humanity
"You vill eat ze bugs"

[posted]

Not sure what TBTB is but the own nothing approach actually works for a lot of people, increasingly (most young and/or single).
Traditionally a car is a sort of commodity, albeit a very poor value one. Almost never increases in value, you have to spend more money on it, it’s prone to failure and spend most of the time doing nothing (parked up).

Come along Uber and others and it’s increasingly seen as a utility for transportation. Don’t need to own one, just pay for what you need and none of the headache. I think driverless cars will speed that up as but that’s a different story but the point being that car ownership is increasingly becoming less appealing. Uber is one thing but need better designed cities and better public transport and other modal access.

Oh, I take it you are a big fan of Klaus and the WEF and their wish to micro-manage every aspect of our lives.
I prefer the freedom of owning my own Car so I can go where I want when I want, you can't put a price on the freedom a Motor Car offers humanity
"You vill eat ze bugs"

lol who’s stopping you owning a car?! Bizzare!
I think motor manufacturers, whom I’m sure have a vested interest in WEF agendas, definitely do want you owning your car and constantly changing it too!

[SpacePhoenix]

One of the big issues with power generation and transmission is frequency. The frequency of the AC has to be within a certain range, if it isn't then either loads and/or generation capacity start tripping out locally to protect the wider grid. If you get too many trip out in a short amount of time you can suddenly get a domino effect and before you know it the whole wider grid has tripped out.

Most people will plug their EVs in to charge when they get home from work (probably many around 18:00), with EV chargers using somewhere in the range of 7-7.2Kw, with that amount of demand it could well take the frequency out of range. If it stays out of range for too long (depends on what tolerances are set in the system) then the local grids with them EV chargers connected will start tripping out.

As well as EV chargers being plugged in, you'll have ovens, and cooker hobs in use, showers, and immersion heaters as well. Also in the winter, heating as well.

[milly]

Not sure what TBTB is but the own nothing approach actually works for a lot of people, increasingly (most young and/or single).
Traditionally a car is a sort of commodity, albeit a very poor value one. Almost never increases in value, you have to spend more money on it, it’s prone to failure and spend most of the time doing nothing (parked up).

Come along Uber and others and it’s increasingly seen as a utility for transportation. Don’t need to own one, just pay for what you need and none of the headache. I think driverless cars will speed that up as but that’s a different story but the point being that car ownership is increasingly becoming less appealing. Uber is one thing but need better designed cities and better public transport and other modal access.

Oh, I take it you are a big fan of Klaus and the WEF and their wish to micro-manage every aspect of our lives.
I prefer the freedom of owning my own Car so I can go where I want when I want, you can't put a price on the freedom a Motor Car offers humanity
"You vill eat ze bugs"

lol who’s stopping you owning a car?! Bizzare!
I think motor manufacturers, whom I’m sure have a vested interest in WEF agendas, definitely do want you owning your car and constantly changing it too!

The agenda is pretty clear with ULEZ and 15 minute Cities, all under the guise of Climate change of course.
There aren't enough resources on the Planet to replace ICE vehicles therefore the supply of them will be restricted to the wealthy.

[posted]

One of the big issues with power generation and transmission is frequency. The frequency of the AC has to be within a certain range, if it isn't then either loads and/or generation capacity start tripping out locally to protect the wider grid. If you get too many trip out in a short amount of time you can suddenly get a domino effect and before you know it the whole wider grid has tripped out.

Most people will plug their EVs in to charge when they get home from work (probably many around 18:00), with EV chargers using somewhere in the range of 7-7.2Kw, with that amount of demand it could well take the frequency out of range. If it stays out of range for too long (depends on what tolerances are set in the system) then the local grids with them EV chargers connected will start tripping out.

As well as EV chargers being plugged in, you'll have ovens, and cooker hobs in use, showers, and immersion heaters as well. Also in the winter, heating as well.

I’m sure those paid to do so at National Grid will have this factored in.

As for plugging in, actually, most might plug in when they get home but they will charge their vehicle at night. I.e there’s a timer in the car or via the homecharger.
EV tariffs are almost exclusively cheaper at night and timing varies for tariffs with different companies too.
One popular tariff (or was popular over 12 months ago) was Octopus Agile tariff which meant you paid MORE between 4-7pm, yes those times when you come home from work.

Non-EV owners/users are trying to extrapolate a scenario based on how they think they would have to use an EV. Speak to any EV user and ask them about when & how they charge.

[SpacePhoenix]

Non-EV owners/users are trying to extrapolate a scenario based on how they think they would have to use an EV. Speak to any EV user and ask them about when & how they charge.

Can't remember where I read it but soon the local grid will be allowed to take power from plugged in EVs. How will them EV users feel on days when the grid has taken power from their vehicles and so they can't travel anywhere?

[posted]

Non-EV owners/users are trying to extrapolate a scenario based on how they think they would have to use an EV. Speak to any EV user and ask them about when & how they charge.

Can't remember where I read it but soon the local grid will be allowed to take power from plugged in EVs. How will them EV users feel on days when the grid has taken power from their vehicles and so they can't travel anywhere?

Vehicle 2 House or Vehicle 2 Grid.
There’s been trials. Only a handful of models of current (this pun is going to get rinsed) cars are compatible and the chargers are very expensive, hence it was a funded trial.
You effectively have a house battery on wheels and you run your house (V2H) and/or export it (V2G).
Something I would like but it won’t suit everybody.

Separately there’s DSR.
Demand Side Response, already being trialled or in use. This is just one-way and can control when and how much you charge.
You opt into it.
You tell them minimum you need
It also learns your charging/use patterns
You get to override it
You’re incentivised/paid to take part.

[drfeelgood]

Fact number 1, the earth has gone through thousands of periods of both warming and cooling in its 4.5 billion year history.

Fact number 2, the earth was warmer during the Middle Ages as evidenced by geological core sampling, now silenced as it does not fit the narrative. Source National Geographic.

Fact number 3, the last 20 years have seen 8 of the coldest years in the last 100 years, source the US Geological survey.

Make your own minds up, but all this draconian legislation and enforcement in pursuing a political net zero agenda will cost the lower paid ie posties amongst many others, in society a lot more than the millionaire/billionaire elites making all these rules for the rest of us to become enslaved by. Man made climate change is the biggest con in human history!!

[SpacePhoenix]

Non-EV owners/users are trying to extrapolate a scenario based on how they think they would have to use an EV. Speak to any EV user and ask them about when & how they charge.

Can't remember where I read it but soon the local grid will be allowed to take power from plugged in EVs. How will them EV users feel on days when the grid has taken power from their vehicles and so they can't travel anywhere?

Vehicle 2 House or Vehicle 2 Grid.
There’s been trials. Only a handful of models of current (this pun is going to get rinsed) cars are compatible and the chargers are very expensive, hence it was a funded trial.
You effectively have a house battery on wheels and you run your house (V2H) and/or export it (V2G).
Something I would like but it won’t suit everybody.

Separately there’s DSR.
Demand Side Response, already being trialled or in use. This is just one-way and can control when and how much you charge.
You opt into it.
You tell them minimum you need
It also learns your charging/use patterns
You get to override it
You’re incentivised/paid to take part.

I'd give it 3 years, 5 tops before Vehicle to Grid gets made mandatory for all EVs and charge points

[milly]

Fact number 1, the earth has gone through thousands of periods of both warming and cooling in its 4.5 billion year history.

Fact number 2, the earth was warmer during the Middle Ages as evidenced by geological core sampling, now silenced as it does not fit the narrative. Source National Geographic.

Fact number 3, the last 20 years have seen 8 of the coldest years in the last 100 years, source the US Geological survey.

Make your own minds up, but all this draconian legislation and enforcement in pursuing a political net zero agenda will cost the lower paid ie posties amongst many others, in society a lot more than the millionaire/billionaire elites making all these rules for the rest of us to become enslaved by. Man made climate change is the biggest con in human history!!

Yes, it's a massive con to control the masses by the Mathusian elites.
The Earth had a little Ice Age from around 1300 until 1850 which is ignored by the Climate Change morons.
It's also telling that the people pushing this hoax own a lot of beachfront property despite telling you sea levels are rising.