CWU : The 12 week sacking thing if on strike.

[biggiehud]

Think about this when we go back they put everybody on a
2 year serious then keep replacing us a few at a time within 12 months whole new work force come on it’s Royal Mail we’re talking about everything is done on the cheap and I wouldn’t put it past em

[clashcityrocker]

If they did put everyone on a 2 year serious, would that disciplinary appear in any reference RM provided?
Would it disadvantage anyone looking for work elsewhere?

[Pidleypoo]

Our delivery office and alot around my area were initially closed when the strikes first begun. So one foot wrong from RM and it unfair dismissal of 130,000 staff. Not to mention the fallout from the public.

Ours was closed too and I suspect the union knew about this caveat.

It’s a total legal minefield and I did wonder why no more strikes were announced and know we know why.

Remember rm saying if you worked on strike days it would be at a mail centre/parcel hub.

There are announcements from rm stating offices would be shut too.

Everyone relax.

[GRS]

Could CWU cancel the strike today & if they can they should do & if not why

They should do which obviously in CWU speak means they won’t! It should never have been chosen in the first place. The quietest day of the year normally and now it could potentially be the final nail whacked in by management’s hammer.

People aren’t going to cross here so it is literally the boards wet dream.

I have to question “the quietest day of the year”. Maybe 20 years ago when we’d go out with the last knocking of cards & zero packets but no way nowadays. If anything Christmas Eve the last couple of years has been one of the busiest of the period in our DO. Just about got done on time and that was a struggle IIRC. Really enjoying having these 2 extra days off and will worry about work when the 28th comes knocking.

I know it’s easy to say but people please stop worrying so much, enjoy your Christmas and whatever happens in the New Year we will have to deal with then.

[cobrakai]

Could CWU cancel the strike today & if they can they should do & if not why

They should do which obviously in CWU speak means they won’t! It should never have been chosen in the first place. The quietest day of the year normally and now it could potentially be the final nail whacked in by management’s hammer.

People aren’t going to cross here so it is literally the boards wet dream.

I have to question “the quietest day of the year”. Maybe 20 years ago when we’d go out with the last knocking of cards & zero packets but no way nowadays. If anything Christmas Eve the last couple of years has been one of the busiest of the period in our DO. Just about got done on time and that was a struggle IIRC. Really enjoying having these 2 extra days off and will worry about work when the 28th comes knocking.

I know it’s easy to say but people please stop worrying so much, enjoy your Christmas and whatever happens in the New Year we will have to deal with then.

I’m in a mail centre and last year I ended up doing cleaning/tidying for last hour and a half. Obviously different in a D.O

[barcajr]

Just wondering what the New Year will bring, considering that RM shows no sign of budging, and not helped by the CWU calling in what is in effect an illegal strike on Xmas Eve which will give RM the perfect excuse to tear up existing agreements

[Chitchat]

Our delivery office and alot around my area were initially closed when the strikes first begun. So one foot wrong from RM and it unfair dismissal of 130,000 staff. Not to mention the fallout from the public.

Ours was closed too and I suspect the union knew about this caveat.

It’s a total legal minefield and I did wonder why no more strikes were announced and know we know why.

Remember rm saying if you worked on strike days it would be at a mail centre/parcel hub.

There are announcements from rm stating offices would be shut too.

Everyone relax.

Yeap I just checked online and it does say we are protected if you was locked out of your workplace. At the start of strikes loads of delivery offices were closed.

[P13]

Just wondering what the New Year will bring, considering that RM shows no sign of budging, and not helped by the CWU calling in what is in effect an illegal strike on Xmas Eve which will give RM the perfect excuse to tear up existing agreements

The strikes not illegal

[Sbutts8182]

Royal Mail would have to prove they’ve done everything to try and end the dispute and it’s the Union that’s been unreasonable, Acas have been in the room also as witness’s to this not happening.

[Acca Dacca]

Royal Mail would have to prove they’ve done everything to try and end the dispute and it’s the Union that’s been unreasonable, Acas have been in the room also as witness’s to this not happening.

They would also need to notify the union and employees in advance of their intention to dismiss before the action was taken

People are getting their knickers in a twist for nothing

Certain posters on here are getting what they wanted

[Minischoles]

There's a very simple breakdown to this

- is it illegal to go on strike?

No, because it's still balloted strike action (instead of a wildcat strike) and therefore still legal

- is it outside of the 12 week protection

Yes, but again that doesn't make it illegal; it technically makes it so you're no longer protected for breaching your contract (all strike action is technically breaching your contract) but that is a civil matter not a criminal matter.

You're not breaking the law, you're breaching a contract; there is a huge difference.

- Could Royal Mail sack you for breaching it?

Yes, but here's the really important part - for it to be legal to sack you for breaching your contract, they would have to sack every member who went on strike. They can't sack one or two people, or one office, or one mail centre - it has to be everybody, otherwise it's no longer a fair dismissal - you cannot be punished for something someone else is being unpunished for (why do you think RM have so many bloody internal procedures for disciplinaries and why it's so bloody hard for them to sack someone? because one foot wrong and they're in a tribunal being hauled over the coals and being forced to pay out).

Do you ever wander why this never happens in any industrial dispute? why all of the RMT members haven't been sacked?

Because while theoretically it's possible, functionally it's impossible; they can sack you, as an individual - they can't sack 120,000 people.

Say even half the workforce went on strike yesterday after the other half chicken out - are Royal Mail going to sack 60,000 people?

All of whom can then raise disputes to the sacking; it would then be contingent upon Royal Mail to prove they did everything to resolve the dispute, and leave them at the mercy of a court ruling - a gamble at the best of times, but with Thompsons words and actions who do you think a court or tribunal is siding with?

Are Royal Mail going to risk the costs involved, not just legal costs but then the settlements, back pay, damages etc? Or are they going to (as the LTB in the first post says) continue on and keep negotiating.

This is the reality of the power of a Union, even after decades of New Labour and Tory laws that have undermined their power - the power still lies with a mass membership, because Royal Mail might have their own agenda but they're not going to risk the nuclear option of mass sackings when it can so easily backfire on them.

[postieblueshirt]

the fact the union sent them a proposal to avert the strikes and it was rejected proves they have not tried everything to bring the dispute to an end.

[Halfhappy]

There's a very simple breakdown to this

- is it illegal to go on strike?

No, because it's still balloted strike action (instead of a wildcat strike) and therefore still legal

- is it outside of the 12 week protection

Yes, but again that doesn't make it illegal; it technically makes it so you're no longer protected for breaching your contract (all strike action is technically breaching your contract) but that is a civil matter not a criminal matter.

You're not breaking the law, you're breaching a contract; there is a huge difference.

- Could Royal Mail sack you for breaching it?

Yes, but here's the really important part - for it to be legal to sack you for breaching your contract, they would have to sack every member who went on strike. They can't sack one or two people, or one office, or one mail centre - it has to be everybody, otherwise it's no longer a fair dismissal - you cannot be punished for something someone else is being unpunished for (why do you think RM have so many bloody internal procedures for disciplinaries and why it's so bloody hard for them to sack someone? because one foot wrong and they're in a tribunal being hauled over the coals and being forced to pay out).

Do you ever wander why this never happens in any industrial dispute? why all of the RMT members haven't been sacked?

Because while theoretically it's possible, functionally it's impossible; they can sack you, as an individual - they can't sack 120,000 people.

Say even half the workforce went on strike yesterday after the other half chicken out - are Royal Mail going to sack 60,000 people?

All of whom can then raise disputes to the sacking; it would then be contingent upon Royal Mail to prove they did everything to resolve the dispute, and leave them at the mercy of a court ruling - a gamble at the best of times, but with Thompsons words and actions who do you think a court or tribunal is siding with?

Are Royal Mail going to risk the costs involved, not just legal costs but then the settlements, back pay, damages etc? Or are they going to (as the LTB in the first post says) continue on and keep negotiating.

This is the reality of the power of a Union, even after decades of New Labour and Tory laws that have undermined their power - the power still lies with a mass membership, because Royal Mail might have their own agenda but they're not going to risk the nuclear option of mass sackings when it can so easily backfire on them.

Now that's how you post a message.

[Halfhappy]

the fact the union sent them a proposal to avert the strikes and it was rejected proves they have not tried everything to bring the dispute to an end.

I was just thinking about this. This offer to halt IA was came under a lot of criticism at the time. This morning I heard it mentioned on the news, and I've seen posts showing newspaper headlines, stating RM have refused an offer to end strikes. In my opinion it is a very understated move by the CWU.

[Sbutts8182]

the fact the union sent them a proposal to avert the strikes and it was rejected proves they have not tried everything to bring the dispute to an end.

And all Royal Mail had to do was put some stuff in writing that had been verbally mentioned in previous meetings, the fact they won’t tells you how disingenuous they are about committing to any agreement.