cars on delivery

[apple]

In our DO we tend to come back to the office to sign off, i would point out that you are supposed to write down the exact actual time you finish, not the time you were supposed to finish, as if there is a fire?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

as already said pinstripe when this flexability (which ive never heard about till this site,but ill take it as not another scare story).

The full agreement for your perusal - answered as a MODERATOR


http://overpaidunderworked.blogspot.com ... y-and.html

[I-POSTIE]

Reading through this thread I recognise that the majority take the common sense view that cars will inevitably make our jobs all the worse for using them on delivery and that most colleagues recognise the pitfalls as far as personal loss is concerned, even with RM’s approved third party only insurance. For those of us who choose not to use our cars on delivery in a attempt to slow the progress RM is making in reducing the number of deliveries is undermined by those whom are selfishly continuing to use theirs. When RM decide that they are going to add to duties they do not just add to duties where they think certain employees are making time out of their particular duty, for example those using their cars. When they see employees going home early they decide that a complete revamp of duties is required to spread the extra load from those duties they have decided to eliminate. This means everyone in that unit has to pick up extra weight and trek over extra ground, not just those whom continue to use their cars. I do not look forward to that which lies ahead of us in the near future with RM’s plan for flexibility but I have resigned myself to the fact that I will be working the eight hours a day which I am paid. Having recognised this I do not want to take on more work than I am already doing – I do not want to be flexible – as far as I am concerned I already have an eight hours a day job. I also believe that most people in delivery have an eight hours a day job. I will not be rushing out, as if I were going to make time out of the job knowing that my DIM wants me to use any time I do make to do further work. Job and finish is coming to an end. RM want us to carry mobile devices (similar in use to the tagging devices attached to criminals) that can be pinpointed by GPS so as to know where we are at any particular moment in our duty span. So there is no going home at the end of a delivery early or you will be accused of desertion of duty and lose pay and ultimately be sacked. The choice those who use their cars have to make is: are they going to use their car to make extra time so that they can do extra work for RM for no extra pay or are they going to join with the rest of us, only start work at their official time, take their official meal relief and use a trolley. One would have to be some kind of idiot to want to appease Stan and Ollie, who accuse us of being over paid and under worked. I personally do not have to slow down in order to fill my eight hours with my workload and I know for a fact that most of you are in the same situation.

[apple]

[Stormproof]

Yet another well said post from IPOSTIE

[norbert]

Seen it all before in another Nationalized Industry .We City Boys way was Always do the job properly to the book , therefore giving those s****hawks nowt , justify the job and have the sense to make it look good .

I rightly fought my proposed redundancy through the union channels and got moved out to yokel out in the sticks , Deliverance Country for being a "troublemaker "

We had the "We know how to handle these Managers ", thinking they were so clever , making time , pinching time , cutting corners being lazy . Either the jobs got cut out or made part time if they were lucky, and they were squawking about loss of overtime etc .

Then extra work got piled on , more cuts and they wanted regrading but those managers had sussed them, as there had been too many complaints; so they got what they deserved .

[Lounge Lizard]

no real reason not to use your own car if you dont want to

If RM wanted to then I can see patrols being reintroduced. Gaffer then pulling you up whilst out on your duty and asking how much more mail you have to deliver. Not enough? Then they'll either monitor your delivery and maybe add some more onto it or expect you back in to do more sorting/ prep for the following day. Paid 8 hours? Then you'll WORK 8 hours. Personally though they'll be reluctant I'd have thought as it puts the 'starting 2 hours before their time' people off their stride and also the 'I'll give Royal Mail my time, car, fuel bills people off to make 13 minutes out of my duty'. They have some sums to do I think. Does it/ will it cost them more to get staff to work their 8 hours OR merely leave them to shoot themselves in the foot with regards to the starting before time and car brigade as it isn't costing them to get the staff out (van, driver, diesel, tax, insurance etc)

Won't need to with these PDAs they are talking about bringing in. Apparently they will have real time satellite positioning on a web site so that the customer can see where we are with their Specials- of course the Manager will check as well

im going to look this one up but i belive it dosnt sound very reallistic...being x military i dont beleve you can have so many constant real time perminant signals relaying gp to thousands of offices without an obscene amount of money...
and to what purpose why where you there ...answer on my break...pee stop bag dropped at wrong place....its pointless

like trackers on vans..they can only ring up and ask the company running it to check van postion at any given moment...this aint hollywood some things arnt real

"being x military" - that says it all. Now out in the real world, expected to do a proper days work for a living, and gets all bitter and twisted !

[brothermagrew]

You may have missed the point of why the Union and RMC don't like people using their cars. I personally don't mind people using them to get them to the round that's there choice and gives them a flyer. However the following points are worthy of note:

1, You need extra insurance to use your car for business use and Royal Mail insist on it but don't pay for it.
2. You wont get mileage allowance to cover wear and tear.

The 2 above reason all people are aware and its there choice. However you don't have a choice on the following.

You are not allowed to use the Car as a mobile Drop Point (Though a lot do) and you can be dismissed if you car is broken into and mail stolen. The DOMs are aware of this but turn a blind eye to it. They are therefore silently condoning an illegal practice.

Another reason I try to convince people not to use their cars is because Royal Mails biggest beef at the moment is paying people for 8 hours but they only work 7. I and other people are predicting that when flexibility hits, people who use the cars may have their rounds extended to cover the hour Royal Mail think they have lost. I don't think they have lost it after all you have worked hard to get finished early and provide a better service, but RM don't see it that way.

But the main reason why the Union don't like it is that when someone takes his 2nd bags out in his car, then the DOMs realise that the driver is not needed to take these bags out. He then adds on to the Drivers duty, or if there is enough posties using their cars then they may cut a duty altogether. Then the car breaks down or a cover postie who does not have a car is tasked for this duty and all of sudden there is no driver to take his bags, what does he do then, wait for ever for the bags to arrive ?. All walking duties should be planned for being completed without the use of cars, but when they see a chance of a saving by cutting the amount of drivers, or by extending a driver duty because posties use their cars, they will do.

All I ask people to do is think of the consequences their actions have on others. Posties using their own cars has cost jobs and this has been proven by DOs like Burslem and POSTMANS working to the rules and this caused new driving duties to be added. However, when it comes down to it I can't stop you using your car all I can do is present the counter argument, but if you consider that moaning, again there is nothing I can do.

Text of letter from our CWU Health, Safety & Environment Officer to Mark Dawson HSE Utilities Section dated 22 Oct 2007.

Dear Mark,
UNSAFE AND ILLEGAL USE OF PRIVATE MOTOR VEHICLES ON POSTAL DELIVERIES:
I wish to bring to your urgent attention an incident which occurred last Monday morning 15 October, involving the unsafe and illegal use of a Private Car by an Agency worker who was employed at the Royal Mail Bedford Delivery Office.

The Agency Worker was stopped by Police just after leaving the Delivery Office in a private car, after he was apparently spotted driving rather carelessly whilst attempting to read a map. The Police subsequently found four Delivery Pouches of Mail inside this individual's car, before discovering the Agency worker was driving the Vehicle without Insurance, Tax or an MOT. It is unsure at this stage as to whether the individual has a driving licence but we should not be surprised if he does not as quite obviously no checks whatsoever were undertaken by local management. The Police immediately impounded the potential unsafe, illegal, 'death-trap', private Car and which was removed from the scene on a Police 'load-loader' recovery vehicle from where it was taken to the Police Pound to await destruction by being crushed.

Royal Mail managers are well aware of the "inherent dangers" of workers using private cars to carry out deliveries without adequate checks of Driving Licences, Motor Insurance, MOT and Road Tax, especially when taking on Agency Workers. Some Managers however are simply ignoring their legal duty of care and are "turning a blind-eye" to the situation putting the health and safety of employees and the public at risk.

Our Union is of the view that the HSE should carry out an investigation into this case with the view of bringing a prosecution against Royal Mail due to the seriousness of the incident and potential implications. We believe that Royal Mail have contravened Section 2(1) and 2(2)(a) of the Health and Safety at Work Etc Act 1974, in that they failed to operate a safe system of work in the Royal Mail Bedford delivery office in that there was no proper system operating for authorising or permitting the use of private motor vehicles by employees and Agency staff in the course of the discharge of their duties thus ensuring that any vehicle that was so used was roadworthy, that the driver was a competent person who was qualified to drive and that the said vehicle was insured, MOT'd and Taxed for the purpose of delivering the mail. Further to this Royal Mail have contravened Section 3(1) of the Health and Safety at Work Etc Act 1974, for failing to ensure the safety of people not employed by them but affected by its work, whereby they are guilty of offences as provided by Section 33(1)(a) of the Health and Safety at Work Etc Act 1974 and liable to a penalty as provided by Section 33 (1)(a) of the said Act as amended.

You will be aware (because I have previously brought it to your attention) that Royal Mail pleaded guilty to three Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 offences at South Gloucester Magistrates' Court on 25th March 1997 arising from the death of Stroud Royal Mail Delivery Office postal worker in an accident using his own private vehicle on delivery which showed up at Gloucester just as it has last week at Bedford specific shortcomings in procedure. It is symptomatic of the general failure to devise and maintain safety checking systems. Although no-one may have given the person concerned express permission to use a private car, its use was condoned by management as it was apparently plain as a pikestaff and obvious to everyone else at the Delivery Office so how could management not be aware of it?

Would you therefore initiate an investigation into this case with the view of appropriate enforcement action and prosecution. I have separately provided for your information the memorandum of conviction of Royal Mail entered in the Register of the Magistrates' Court, South Glos. Magistrates' Court, No 2 Court sitting on 25th March 1997 at 2pm.

Reason enough for not using private cars on delivery.

[brothermagrew]

And if anyone should be in any further doubt as to why private cars should not be used on delivery. Below is part of the response of the Communcations Workers Union specifically in relation to the investigation of "at-work accidents" and Corporate Accountability.

Full details can be found on the CWU website in LTB 462/07.

Case Study No 2 - Robert Sharp Royal Mail Delivery Postman - Fatal RTA 21.8.2001
Robert Sharp, a 19-year-old Postman from Hamilton, Lanarkshire was sentenced to seven years prison after being found guilty at Hamilton Sheriffs Court of causing the death of a teenage girl Fiona McGill, through dangerous driving in August 2001 near Uddingston. He was also found guilty of seriously injuring two other girls Stephanie O'Brien and Julie Ann Glancy who were waiting for a school bus with Miss McGill. He had denied driving at speeds of up to 60 miles per hour in a 30mph zone in Viewpark, near Uddingston and being involved in a game of "chicken" with a Royal Mail Van just prior to the accident when he saw a work colleague, 18-year-old James McAllister, driving a mail van in the opposite direction. Witnesses said that Sharp's car - for no discernable reason - swerved onto the wrong side of the road and drove directly towards the Mail Van. Just before impact with the three girls Sharp swerved back onto the right side of the road but lost control, mounting the pavement where the three victims were standing.

It subsequently came to light that Sharp was on his way back to the Uddingston Royal Mail Delivery Office, after finishing his postal delivery round, having used his private car to deliver Mail. Additionally, Sharp had only passed his driving test four weeks before the accident. Royal Mail Managers had not undertaken suitable and sufficient risk assessments or imposed sufficient controls on staff using their private cars on delivery. They had in place a “job and finishâ€

[Stormproof]

i say it again and again

We noticed

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Why does he keep say banning - some on here and in the CWU are asking for a ban but it has and will never happen, has he missed the point that we are just trying to convince people to not use their cars.


Also as Moderator 2 purely abusive posts deleted. Why -

1. Because they introduced nothing to the argument

2. They broke the rules.

3. As a Moderator I am allowed to.

Once again where possible and if I spot them posts I consider abusive and don't add to the discussion will be deleted/edited without warning. You all agreed to accept this when you joined.

[pinstripe]

The main reasons for not using your car are not so you can do less work. You are paid by RM to work a set amount of hours, they want you to work this amount of hours. (Although job and finish was a RM incentive to bring in the single delivery, an incentive they are now scrapping, so much for RM keeping their word) It is about protecting jobs and the service we provide. Protecting jobs does not mean that we want money for nothing, it means doing the job RM pay us to do, THE WAY RM TELL US TO DO IT. It is RM who say lock your bike, check the mail before posting, not to read and walk at the same time, etc. Combined with safety responsibilities that every company should be expected to insist upon, seat belts to be worn, hi-vis clothing, safety boots, safe methods of working and safe working practices which are an employees rights and an employers duty, yes they can add a few minutes to your time, but time well spent. I cannot see how the union recommending that we work to our employers guidelines and within the Health and Safety Regulations can cause you to think in any way that we/they want more money and jobs for less work.
The point remains that every year RM demand cuts in every office in the country, usually about 5%. This does not mean that there is 5% less work to be done, as you will have seen, in deliveries at least, mail volumes have actually increased. RM do not see this as a problem however, they think an unskilled, untrained, part time workforce will still be there when RM want them, to provide a second rate service.
I agree with you in that some full time staff do not work their full shifts, they are still finishing early, using their cars, starting before their time, but that is a part time problem as well. I work part time, I'm contracted for 30 hours a weeks, I work 30 hours a week. There was a problem before the strikes with what is now being referred to as the POVF, which due to the ill-feeling left by the strikes has now almost ceased. Using their own cars, which was banned by our Area Manager, suddenly stopped. We haven't had any extra duties put in, but we haven't lost any either.

My main argument against using private cars on delivery, while irrelevant in my area, is that we should be working to our 318 (how RM have detailed all aspects of a duty), if this includes transport to the start of the delivery by van, bus or on foot, then that is how it should be done. Slightly off topic, but if you got bit by a dog on delivery, when filling out the accident report, they ask if you were wearing RM issued footwear. If you trip on a step. they check you were wearing your hi-vis vest, my point is everything you do whilst at work is governed by RM. If you break any of their rules and get caught, you will be out. RM only turn a blind eye when it suits them to.

[pinstripe]

I honestly think it will be agreed and implemented by RM that private cars are no longer used within the next 6-12 months. They constantly get bad press about it and will want to be seen to be doing something positive about it to divert attention away from their less savory attack of post offices, pensions etc.

Your final point, about 46p a mile is worth considering, I wish I'd thought about it earlier, but I'm positive that RM managers get a mileage allowance, something else the workforce didn't.

[axeman]

Top man at r.m wants cars to be a thing of the past as he said the corporate image of r.m is being eroded by posties delivering mail from the back of a fiesta, Cars will go and quite soon the fine r.m recived for losses of mail coupled with the h&s breathing down there neck has quickened the urge to get posties away from using there private vehicle.

And can type.... congratulations you have rewriten the english language !!!!! please research before you make coments on things you obviously have scant knowledge about

[Sparx71]

We have a ban (put in place by management) on using cars on delivery.This is sort of enforced,but a blind eye is turned if the postie is doing a round on O/T to help the management out.One postie was even encouraged to back his car up to the loading bay and was given help to load the boot by the Line manager.Unfortunately,he did..the goon.
However,if you're seen to be having a coffee on your sorting frame,all hell breaks loose...