What will ultimately break this dispute?

[TopperGas]

A lot of angry shareholders watching their investments going down the drain

The share price seems to have bottomed out and DK owns a large proportion of them and he could well be driving the dispute anyway?

I sense our only hope is that Christmas becomes a PR disaster for RM but at present it seems the unions getting the bad PR. I guess as long as customers get their Tracked parcels nobody's worried about Christmas cards.

[Wullie10]

It is a political strike.the aim is ultimately a Labour government. History will repeat itself. Like james Challaghan in 1978 who found himself with massive inflation the unions will strike until the public have had enough as large wage increases will further fuel inflation and deafet the object. That brought in the era of Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets . This created prosperity for working people for a short while as it increased asset prices and created cheap money and massive public and private debt. But ultimately it only favoured the rich as increased asset prices only favour the rich. Interesting that the present government are brining in new anti union laws and more relaxed financial rules. As I say History just repeats himself.. The CWU mistake was not trying to reach an agreement for its members ages ago which may have not suited every worker but they chose a political war instead. It would make more sense if people tried to understand what created inflation in the first place The Russian Ukraine conflict , QE ( money printing ) first introduced by Alister Darling to save the banks and the ridiculous lockdowns which all parties supported.

I thought it was the bring down the government line. I suppose the attacks on our jobs, and terms are a coincidence? I've no doubt the CWU most probably want a labour government, but to think we're being balloted and striking for the goal of achieving that, is ridiculous. As for wages increasing inflation, inflation is through the roof, and no one has had a near inflation pay increase for 10yrs, the only thing increasing is profits. We have this situation as there's no money flowing in the economy. Ask yourself where all this money that's been printed during the pandemic is? £450 billion, I think. Where is it? Its not flowing in the economy where it should be. This government has chose the arbitrary number of 5yrs to pay off this debt, it's doesn't have to do that. They could choose longer, instead they're opting for austerity.

You are correct there have been no real increases in workers wages in ten years because there was no consumer inflation we were told. But there was inflation caused by QE money printing and that was asset inflation. That's because money printing always favours the rich as they own the most assets.
The cheap money created caused a house price boom. That's why the rich got richer and the workers kept poor. Now its a different kind of inflation That's hitting working people. But they can only argue for wage rises which is understandable. The covid 450 billion money went on unproductive people to sit at home and buy stuff because they were bored. The supply chain collapsed and the stuff became more expensive. It went in to the general economy and helped cause the consumer inflation we are seeing now.

[Dorset Plodder]

Tbh I think the best we can hope for is a few tweaks to the deal. There's a number of problems regarding the whole thing.

I think you've made some good points there heapsey.

[SpacePhoenix]

Actual changing of start times might not be a bad as we think. Most offices have already moved over the years. I believe that the parcel duties are more likely to start later than deliveries.

Change of start times in DOs will be determined by changes to dispatch times upstream (Outward MC, RDCs, any hubs, Inward MC) and any changes that get made to Skynet

[Dorset Plodder]

Royal Mail are employing over 11,000 casual staff every week. That was happening long before the strikes started. We’ve had them in my MC for ages now.Royal Mail can easily take compulsory redundancies off the table

You've hit the nail on the head mate

CR are a bit of a smoke screen I think as RM could simply get rid of those 10000 Agenecy Staff easily. Instead they're targetting 10000 more experienced (and better paid) Posties, probably in an attempt to not only save money but to dilute the CWU membership. Remember their proclaimed aim is to remove the Union from the workplace!

I think a lot of Strike Breakers have forgotten that small detail. They may be working today because they need the money, but next year if we lose this battle they will not only have all these changes brought in by EA but when they suddenly find an extra 150 DPs dumped on them (which has been suggested in our Revision) they'll have no one to fight their cause with Management because there won't be a Union there!

[Murdoch]

It's hard not to feel that way. I think we all are feeling the same, deep down. Hence the tension on these forums. I do feel things could be on a cusp of something, tho. I've never seen so many people pointing in the same direction and throwing their fury at the people who deserve it for once.

This is the one good thing to come from the current state of the UK.

People actually aiming their disdain in the right direction for once. About bloody time!

[walthmstowman]

Royal Mail are employing over 11,000 casual staff every week. That was happening long before the strikes started. We’ve had them in my MC for ages now.Royal Mail can easily take compulsory redundancies off the table

You've hit the nail on the head mate

CR are a bit of a smoke screen I think as RM could simply get rid of those 10000 Agenecy Staff easily. Instead they're targetting 10000 more experienced (and better paid) Posties, probably in an attempt to not only save money but to dilute the CWU membership. Remember their proclaimed aim is to remove the Union from the workplace!

I think a lot of Strike Breakers have forgotten that small detail. They may be working today because they need the money, but next year if we lose this battle they will not only have all these changes brought in by EA but when they suddenly find an extra 150 DPs dumped on them (which has been suggested in our Revision) they'll have no one to fight their cause with Management because there won't be a Union there!

I think you're correct . I have long suspected it was DK driving this dispute . Does anybody know when the rearranged shareholder meeting will be held ?
I don't know if any good can come from it but I feel its very important our union gets to talk to them face to face .

[goneaway]

There's been plenty of calls for the head of the CEO, Simon Thompson, but very little is said about the Non-Executive Chairman, Keith Williams. I haven't heard much about calls for him to be sacked or to resign. Can a Non-Executive Chair even be sacked in the same manner as a CEO can be sacked? The CEO ultimately reports to the Chair of the Board.

If Simon Thompson did go, I fear the same agenda could stay in place, perhaps with just a bit of tinkering around the edges, in an effort to get workers back on side. I think Simon Thompson is just Keith Williams' puppet, who has done a very poor job of trying to force through the Board's agenda. After all, Keith Williams was behind the review of the railways, which came out with a recommendation for a 2% pay rise for railworkers (does that 2% figure sound familiar at all?). And a conditional percentage on top (for railworkers, an extra amount for redundancies, for postal workers, for meeting (impossible?) productivity targets and revisions). And, a few weeks ago, the two sides in both the rail and postal disputes announced on the same day they would enter a period of "intensive negotiations". Sounds like some pressure from above and from the same person, given the identical use of the word "intensive". There seem to be so many parallels between the two disputes.

And remember, Keith Williams was in the Chair when Rico Back was CEO, as well, when a lot of the proposed changes to terms and conditions first surfaced before the Covid-19 pandemic.

[Dorset Plodder]

There's been plenty of calls for the head of the CEO, Simon Thompson, but very little is said about the Non-Executive Chairman, Keith Williams.

Keith Williams: "The Power Behind the Throne" ....... OK lets sack that Money Grabbing Bastard as well, while we're at it !

[walthmstowman]

There's been plenty of calls for the head of the CEO, Simon Thompson, but very little is said about the Non-Executive Chairman, Keith Williams. I haven't heard much about calls for him to be sacked or to resign. Can a Non-Executive Chair even be sacked in the same manner as a CEO can be sacked? The CEO ultimately reports to the Chair of the Board.

If Simon Thompson did go, I fear the same agenda could stay in place, perhaps with just a bit of tinkering around the edges, in an effort to get workers back on side. I think Simon Thompson is just Keith Williams' puppet, who has done a very poor job of trying to force through the Board's agenda. After all, Keith Williams was behind the review of the railways, which came out with a recommendation for a 2% pay rise for railworkers (does that 2% figure sound familiar at all?). And a conditional percentage on top (for railworkers, an extra amount for redundancies, for postal workers, for meeting (impossible?) productivity targets and revisions). And, a few weeks ago, the two sides in both the rail and postal disputes announced on the same day they would enter a period of "intensive negotiations". Sounds like some pressure from above and from the same person, given the identical use of the word "intensive". There seem to be so many parallels between the two disputes.

And remember, Keith Williams was in the Chair when Rico Back was CEO, as well, when a lot of the proposed changes to terms and conditions first surfaced before the Covid-19 pandemic.

I agree . There are more board members responsible than just Simon Thompson . One man wouldn't be allowed to destroy a 500 year old company on his own .

[stevejm]

A lot of angry shareholders watching their investments going down the drain

The reality is most of those shareholders will use any lower share price to just buy some more on the cheap and wait it out

In order to buy large amounts of shares there has to be institutional sellers - who are these sellers selling at the bottom of the cycle?

[norris9]

It think it's the mailcentres where the redundancies are hitting. If I remember rightly there's a thread on here, with the announcements. That's the problem with polls on a forum, 98% of Royal Mail employees aren't on here, lol.

I get that it's probably not an accurate poll....but I am in a large mail centre and we were told there will be no redundancies and we are actually 20 people understaffed when all is said and done. So I won't be surprised if ~45% of offices have 0 redundancies.

[Halfhappy]

It think it's the mailcentres where the redundancies are hitting. If I remember rightly there's a thread on here, with the announcements. That's the problem with polls on a forum, 98% of Royal Mail employees aren't on here, lol.

I get that it's probably not an accurate poll....but I am in a large mail centre and we were told there will be no redundancies and we are actually 20 people understaffed when all is said and done. So I won't be surprised if ~45% of offices have 0 redundancies.

Yea, its why I put a 'lol' on the end, I didn't want you thinking I was having a dig. There's defo a thread with announced MC redundancies, I honestly can't remember places or numbers, tho, Leeds keeps coming to mind. I think it also mentioned fixed term contracts ending, that might be a thread of its own, I lose track easy. I'll have a look bk when I get the chance to see what they are. It's interesting what you've said, tho, as I just assumed, from reading that thread, that MCs were the target. At the minute I can't see how they can possibly make compulsory, whilst employing agency, in those areas I'm guessing. Surely they have to exhaust temporary staff first?

[norris9]

What will break this dispute....I think Royal Mail have plans to end the dispute or significantly escalate it by end of March 2023.

For whatever reason, Royal Mail seem to have a date set around the end of March for something to happen....

- They had said before - 'no compulsory redundancies until end of March'

- All the jobs I have seen advertised on their website are short term contracts up until the end of March or before.

I am not sure if they have actually employed any new starts on permanent contracts under the lower pay and terms and conditions yet - just these temporary workers.


So something is brewing for end of March....

Takeover?
Thompson has helped smash down the share price for his billionaire friend to come in and buy the shares he needs for a takeover?

With one of the following....

- Changes get enforced? with a possible offer of a decent compulsory redundancy package for thousands of Posties?

- All the compulsory redundancy threats were just a scare tactic to make us take a crap deal, but in the end a fair deal is done with no CR.

[clashcityrocker]

He hasn't "smashed down" the share price. It has been lower.
If VESA launched a takeover bid they wouldn't pay the share price for the day. There are rules about that and ultimately it would be down to the shareholders the price they would be prepared to sell at.
There has been no indication that VESA are increasing their stake at RM at the "smashed down" price though they have upped their stake in PostNL.

I don't think there is such a thing as a decent compulsory redundancy package.