What will ultimately break this dispute?

[Binsey]

Tories send in goons with truncheons.

Full Thatcherite to appeal to there base.

[Wullie10]

I wonder what the average age of the work force is? In our office it's late 50s.. Once you're in that territory you can take a job elsewhere for less money maybe and FAR less stress and hours topped up with a ( small) pension . Quite a few have mentioned this. The Royal Mail will loose experience which they wouldn't care less. The union will loose a few members. I don't see any interest in young people in the job at all. The longer this drags on the company will win. Older expensive staff gone replaced by a few kids running around who know no better for pennies. The union will say we're fighting for those kids but most older blokes couldn't care less. They want out.

[richietns]

Because the share price is currently in the toilet. When GLS is sold that share price will rocket.
When that happens all the big players will cash in and regain their losses which will collapse the share price. Classic pump and dump

Why hasn't he implemented the changes,he dictates but at the same time says thats my final offer,there's also a possibility he can't.

Some things they can. The practices, policies, procedures etc incl benefits. It's the T&Cs of employment they would need agreement through collective bargaining (union). Otherwise i think there is a legal but protracted route if they want to serve notice on employment contract changes.

Thats my point on a 100,000 people.

[richietns]

I wonder what the average age of the work force is? In our office it's late 50s.. Once you're in that territory you can take a job elsewhere for less money maybe and FAR less stress and hours topped up with a ( small) pension . Quite a few have mentioned this. The Royal Mail will loose experience which they wouldn't care less. The union will loose a few members. I don't see any interest in young people in the job at all. The longer thos drags on the company will win. Older expensive staff gone replaced by a few kids running around who know no better for pennies.

Its the older staff who want to keep the t&cs pension contributions etc they the majority on the picket lines,I personally dont think the youth see a good future in rm.

[walthmstowman]

IMO, a big step forward would be a signed commitment from management on no compulsory redundancies. I think management are slowly getting what they want anyway due to natural wastage . For example in my MC we have a few coming up to retirement.

[Wullie10]

I wonder what the average age of the work force is? In our office it's late 50s.. Once you're in that territory you can take a job elsewhere for less money maybe and FAR less stress and hours topped up with a ( small) pension . Quite a few have mentioned this. The Royal Mail will loose experience which they wouldn't care less. The union will loose a few members. I don't see any interest in young people in the job at all. The longer thos drags on the company will win. Older expensive staff gone replaced by a few kids running around who know no better for pennies.

Its the older staff who want to keep the t&cs pension contributions etc they the majority on the picket lines,I personally dont think the youth see a good future in rm.

Us older staff obviously want to keep T&C and fight the most but they'll be a breaking point when there are alternatives not available to a 40 year old.
Most I talk too are fed up and its all rumours and gossip what might or might not happen. The only talk in our office for the last year is pensions . Maybe other offices are different I couldn't say.

[Ppat98]

Everyone saying the solution is for Thompson to leave is kidding themselves. He was hired to do this.

Choices have Consequences ..... ST chose to go down the road of deliberately provoking the workforce to engineer his, and possibly the shareholders, agenda....... It didn't go well.

The Consequences of his actions (despite awarding himself yet more bonuses) is to lose his job! Rico Back went the same way because he couldn't do the job either.

ALL TRUST HAS BEEN LOST! Most Union Members wouldn't accept a glass of water from ST if they were dying of thirst. I'm not suggesting that IF they sacked ST all the problems would disappear but if they retain his highly incompetent services it's NOT going to help the situation.

So what happens if ST leaves this weekend and a new CEO starts on Monday but is still given the same agenda by the Board i.e. cut the £1m a day losses to zero?

We may hope we can trust the new CEO more but we'll soon also lose trust in the new CEO if he sticks with a similar agenda, given ST's stuck to it for months including wrecking Black Friday/Cyber Monday and now Christmas he must be doing it with full backing of the Board & probably DK in the background as it must be costing RM £m's as will as ill will from both sets of customers.

Surely if the board were to sack ST, it would be unlikely they'd install a new CEO to follow the same path? I mean, the may as well just leave him there. I think the removal of ST would open a route for RM, and the CWU, to agree some sort of deal, that looks like a joint success. ST would be gone, taking all the bad blood with him, the line would be drawn under him, a new partnership would be created, everyone is a winner. ST gets a golden handshake, and becomes the scapegoat.

Yeah if he was to leave they most likely would change path but doubt it would be by much. They have a master plan for this company. The best deal we will get is delaying that plan. Union have already told us they are trying to extend the deal for 2 year's.

If a trillion dollar company like Amazon can squeeze it's employees & make them work all hour's & day's then RM won't think twice about it. The only thing we have over Amazon is that we have a strong union & uso.

The union have no choice other than to suggest we keep on striking after Christmas because if they accept that deal, the membership would drop. The union are hanging on by a thread. Next few weeks are critical for them.

[Halfhappy]

Everyone saying the solution is for Thompson to leave is kidding themselves. He was hired to do this.

Choices have Consequences ..... ST chose to go down the road of deliberately provoking the workforce to engineer his, and possibly the shareholders, agenda....... It didn't go well.

The Consequences of his actions (despite awarding himself yet more bonuses) is to lose his job! Rico Back went the same way because he couldn't do the job either.

ALL TRUST HAS BEEN LOST! Most Union Members wouldn't accept a glass of water from ST if they were dying of thirst. I'm not suggesting that IF they sacked ST all the problems would disappear but if they retain his highly incompetent services it's NOT going to help the situation.

So what happens if ST leaves this weekend and a new CEO starts on Monday but is still given the same agenda by the Board i.e. cut the £1m a day losses to zero?

We may hope we can trust the new CEO more but we'll soon also lose trust in the new CEO if he sticks with a similar agenda, given ST's stuck to it for months including wrecking Black Friday/Cyber Monday and now Christmas he must be doing it with full backing of the Board & probably DK in the background as it must be costing RM £m's as will as ill will from both sets of customers.

Surely if the board were to sack ST, it would be unlikely they'd install a new CEO to follow the same path? I mean, the may as well just leave him there. I think the removal of ST would open a route for RM, and the CWU, to agree some sort of deal, that looks like a joint success. ST would be gone, taking all the bad blood with him, the line would be drawn under him, a new partnership would be created, everyone is a winner. ST gets a golden handshake, and becomes the scapegoat.

Yeah if he was to leave they most likely would change path but doubt it would be by much. They have a master plan for this company. The best deal we will get is delaying that plan. Union have already told us they are trying to extend the deal for 2 year's.

If a trillion dollar company like Amazon can squeeze it's employees & make them work all hour's & day's then RM won't think twice about it. The only thing we have over Amazon is that we have a strong union & uso.

The union have no choice other than to suggest we keep on striking after Christmas because if they accept that deal, the membership would drop. The union are hanging on by a thread. Next few weeks are critical for them.

Did Amazon in Coventry just strike,? I'm sure I read about it being the first in the UK to do it. I also think that Amazon being international makes its more difficult for the workers to galvanise. I said this from the start, I'll say it again. This dispute is bigger than us. All its gonna take is one win, from one union, and the wave of rising workers will begin. This is the first time, in all my yrs, I've seen a coming together of people like this. Union isn't a dirty word anymore. The government is going to do everything to stop this happening. Just look at the interventions they're making in the RMT dispute. They're even indemnifying rail bosses, with tax payers money. If we lose, I believe, that's the end of trade unionism.

[Kenfandango]

I don't like to say this but I think it's largely a lost cause now. Doubt we will get much better than a minimal rise with some concessions on the terms....

The time for "fighting" and "solidarity" should have been at privatisation, or one of the seemingly many other times before I started when RM slipped things into new starters contracts or altered the way we work (everyone part time, the requirement to move office if needed, the lower overtime rates, the "5 in 7" clause, the "managers may change your hours as required" clause, the job description being reduced to "do what your manager deems you capable of") .... seems like over the past decade they've altered the terms every few months, and the CWU have fought solely for the existing staff and not thought about the future.

Sorry I'm feeling pretty bleak about all of this now, I'd like to be positive and say "stay strong" but 40 years of life has taught me that 90% of the time the bad guys win, and when their victory turns sour they walk away unscathed

[Halfhappy]

I wonder what the average age of the work force is? In our office it's late 50s.. Once you're in that territory you can take a job elsewhere for less money maybe and FAR less stress and hours topped up with a ( small) pension . Quite a few have mentioned this. The Royal Mail will loose experience which they wouldn't care less. The union will loose a few members. I don't see any interest in young people in the job at all. The longer thos drags on the company will win. Older expensive staff gone replaced by a few kids running around who know no better for pennies.

Its the older staff who want to keep the t&cs pension contributions etc they the majority on the picket lines,I personally dont think the youth see a good future in rm.

I concur. I'm also seeing this. The older staff, around my age (50) are ill with the fear of redundancy. Most of us have worked in RM since our 20s, some were even cadets. Having said that, there's not a soul in my office that isn't in a state of terminal panic, even the younger staff. This is where I feel ST is showing ineptitude. His attempts to scare and bully us have only galvanised the workforce, and done nothing other than put us in a situation where we feel we've everything to lose if this dispute is lost.

[Halfhappy]

I don't like to say this but I think it's largely a lost cause now. Doubt we will get much better than a minimal rise with some concessions on the terms....

The time for "fighting" and "solidarity" should have been at privatisation, or one of the seemingly many other times before I started when RM slipped things into new starters contracts or altered the way we work (everyone part time, the requirement to move office if needed, the lower overtime rates, the "5 in 7" clause, the "managers may change your hours as required" clause, the job description being reduced to "do what your manager deems you capable of") .... seems like over the past decade they've altered the terms every few months, and the CWU have fought solely for the existing staff and not thought about the future.

Sorry I'm feeling pretty bleak about all of this now, I'd like to be positive and say "stay strong" but 40 years of life has taught me that 90% of the time the bad guys win, and when their victory turns sour they walk away unscathed

It's hard not to feel that way. I think we all are feeling the same, deep down. Hence the tension on these forums. I do feel things could be on a cusp of something, tho. I've never seen so many people pointing in the same direction and throwing their fury at the people who deserve it for once.

[roman]

You are right terms and conditions have been slowly diminishing for a long time. More so since privatisation.The biggest was giving new starters temporary contracts. So attacking the full time contracts is just another step on from that.Of course you want to protect those grandad rights but I’m afraid the horse bolted and left the barn door ajar a long time ago.

[Ppat98]

I wonder what the average age of the work force is? In our office it's late 50s.. Once you're in that territory you can take a job elsewhere for less money maybe and FAR less stress and hours topped up with a ( small) pension . Quite a few have mentioned this. The Royal Mail will loose experience which they wouldn't care less. The union will loose a few members. I don't see any interest in young people in the job at all. The longer thos drags on the company will win. Older expensive staff gone replaced by a few kids running around who know no better for pennies.

Its the older staff who want to keep the t&cs pension contributions etc they the majority on the picket lines,I personally dont think the youth see a good future in rm.

I concur. I'm also seeing this. The older staff, around my age (50) are ill with the fear of redundancy. Most of us have worked in RM since our 20s, some were even cadets. Having said that, there's not a soul in my office that isn't in a state of terminal panic, even the younger staff. This is where I feel ST is showing ineptitude. His attempts to scare and bully us have only galvanised the workforce, and done nothing other than put us in a situation where we feel we've everything to lose if this dispute is lost.

I wasn't saying Amazon worker's are happy. My point was Amazon are much bigger than RM. Much more customers & profits but they still treat their workers worst than us. Unfortunately that's the reality for unskilled workers like us. We will get knocked from pillar to post & treated as replaceable.

You would struggle to find a company that gives unskilled workers good terms & conditions. I read Cadbury's worker's got a decent payrise, not sure about their terms & conditions though.

Also amazon worker's signed up to crap term's from the start because it's a fairly new operation. RM are 500 year's old & have a history of giving us good terms as postmen, that's why these new proposal's are controversial. As I said before, when the company was sold off those day's were set to come to a end.

You need a reality check mate.

[Halfhappy]

I wonder what the average age of the work force is? In our office it's late 50s.. Once you're in that territory you can take a job elsewhere for less money maybe and FAR less stress and hours topped up with a ( small) pension . Quite a few have mentioned this. The Royal Mail will loose experience which they wouldn't care less. The union will loose a few members. I don't see any interest in young people in the job at all. The longer thos drags on the company will win. Older expensive staff gone replaced by a few kids running around who know no better for pennies.

Its the older staff who want to keep the t&cs pension contributions etc they the majority on the picket lines,I personally dont think the youth see a good future in rm.

I concur. I'm also seeing this. The older staff, around my age (50) are ill with the fear of redundancy. Most of us have worked in RM since our 20s, some were even cadets. Having said that, there's not a soul in my office that isn't in a state of terminal panic, even the younger staff. This is where I feel ST is showing ineptitude. His attempts to scare and bully us have only galvanised the workforce, and done nothing other than put us in a situation where we feel we've everything to lose if this dispute is lost.

I wasn't saying Amazon worker's are happy. My point was Amazon are much bigger than RM. Much more customers & profits but they still treat their workers worst than us. Unfortunately that's the reality for unskilled workers like us. We will get knocked from pillar to post & treated as replaceable.

You would struggle to find a company that gives unskilled workers good terms & conditions. I read Cadbury's worker's got a decent payrise, not sure about their terms & conditions though.

Also amazon worker's signed up to crap term's from the start because it's a fairly new operation. RM are 500 year's old & have a history of giving us good terms as postmen, that's why these new proposal's are controversial. As I said before, when the company was sold off those day's were set to come to a end.

You need a reality check mate.

I never said you did, I was actually agreeing with you, and adding to what you said. You need to calm down, mate!

[k979aaa]

His resignation would be a start!