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What will ultimately break this dispute?

Pay talks 2022 discussion, news, LTB's RMCtv and all BUSINESS RECOVERY, TRANSFORMATION AND GROWTH AGREEMENT chat
Dorset Plodder
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by Dorset Plodder »

redlen wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 17:40
Who exactly are going to remove Simon Thompson From his job?
As previosuly stated, he has been put into that position to do a job, that is more dividends for share holders and smash the CWU then ripe for a sell off.
Government are not going to do anything with the draconian Trade Union Strike Bill being rushed through Parliament.
Believing share holders will oust him is an illusion when you have Billionaire Daniel Kretinsky and Vesa who currently owns 22% of Royal Mail and looking at 30% with the aquisition of GLS given the green light by government.
Public support is dwindling, especially small business trying to recover after the pandemic and the strikes during their most profitable time of year.
:cuppa
Like all Wage Slaves, he had two crosses to bear: The people he worked for and the people he worked with! (Stephen Vizinczey.)
Dorset Plodder
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by Dorset Plodder »

TopperGas wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 17:38
So what happens if ST leaves this weekend and a new CEO starts on Monday but is still given the same agenda by the Board i.e. cut the £1m a day losses to zero?

We may hope we can trust the new CEO more but we'll soon also lose trust in the new CEO if he sticks with a similar agenda, given ST's stuck to it for months including wrecking Black Friday/Cyber Monday and now Christmas he must be doing it with full backing of the Board & probably DK in the background as it must be costing RM £m's as will as ill will from both sets of customers.


I agree TG we'll probably get just another Management Clone :thumbdown ...... BUT Simon Thompson will be out of a job! :thumbup

Until of course he lands on his feet in another High Paying Executive Postion. My point is HE should not be allowed to prosper because of the way he's handled this situation, if it's with the backing of Share Holders then maybe they'll learn a lesson as well? :cuppa
Like all Wage Slaves, he had two crosses to bear: The people he worked for and the people he worked with! (Stephen Vizinczey.)
k979aaa
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by k979aaa »

Halfhappy
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by Halfhappy »

redlen wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 17:06
Corbyn is a relic from the 1970s, much like some of the rhetoric from some trade unionist.
Royal Mail is a private company now. The Idea that Royal Mail belongs with the ideals of Gordon Murray with the Bobby on the beat community service is a far cry from the dog eat dog corporate world of a privatised industry. The obligations belong to the share holder, not the employees.
It seems the current CEO is trying to lump RM's obligations on the tax payer.
redlen
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by redlen »

Obligations are already on the tax payer if a former nationalised industry does not make a profit. The tax payer gives that privatised industry 10% above its operating costs
Halfhappy
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by Halfhappy »

TopperGas wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 17:38
Dorset Plodder wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 17:20
Ppat98 wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 17:02
Everyone saying the solution is for Thompson to leave is kidding themselves. He was hired to do this.
Choices have Consequences ..... ST chose to go down the road of deliberately provoking the workforce to engineer his, and possibly the shareholders, agenda....... It didn't go well. :no no

The Consequences of his actions (despite awarding himself yet more bonuses) is to lose his job! Rico Back went the same way because he couldn't do the job either. :thumbup

ALL TRUST HAS BEEN LOST!
Most Union Members wouldn't accept a glass of water from ST if they were dying of thirst. I'm not suggesting that IF they sacked ST all the problems would disappear but if they retain his highly incompetent services it's NOT going to help the situation. :cuppa
So what happens if ST leaves this weekend and a new CEO starts on Monday but is still given the same agenda by the Board i.e. cut the £1m a day losses to zero?

We may hope we can trust the new CEO more but we'll soon also lose trust in the new CEO if he sticks with a similar agenda, given ST's stuck to it for months including wrecking Black Friday/Cyber Monday and now Christmas he must be doing it with full backing of the Board & probably DK in the background as it must be costing RM £m's as will as ill will from both sets of customers.
Surely if the board were to sack ST, it would be unlikely they'd install a new CEO to follow the same path? I mean, the may as well just leave him there. I think the removal of ST would open a route for RM, and the CWU, to agree some sort of deal, that looks like a joint success. ST would be gone, taking all the bad blood with him, the line would be drawn under him, a new partnership would be created, everyone is a winner. ST gets a golden handshake, and becomes the scapegoat.
Last edited by Halfhappy on 10 Dec 2022, 18:41, edited 1 time in total.
Halfhappy
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by Halfhappy »

redlen wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 18:28
Obligations are already on the tax payer if a former nationalised industry does not make a profit. The tax payer gives that privatised industry 10% above its operating costs
Has someone just said that? There's also the USO, he's trying to dispose with. Where's that gonna end up?
redlen
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by redlen »

Halfhappy wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 18:39
redlen wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 18:28
Obligations are already on the tax payer if a former nationalised industry does not make a profit. The tax payer gives that privatised industry 10% above its operating costs
Has someone just said that? There's also the USO, he's trying to dispose with. Where's that gonna end up?
The rhetoric is already there with losing a milion a day. The sale of GLS will be the final nail. They have already rebranded GLS as a seperate entity and stopped the cross subsidy to the rest of the Royal Mail group. Royal Mail will say it can no longer afford the USO so the government will repeal parts of it. Probably a five day service instead of six.

Ultimately the Government will never allow Royal Mail to fail so will take back into public ownership. Then sell off different parts such as Delivery/Processing/ Hubs to the highest bidder under new company brand names. Just my opinion but you only have to look at BT and British Gas.
Last edited by redlen on 10 Dec 2022, 18:52, edited 1 time in total.
richietns
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by richietns »

redlen wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 17:40
Who exactly are going to remove Simon Thompson From his job?

As previosuly stated, he has been put into that position to do a job, that is more dividends for share holders and smash the CWU then ripe for a sell off.

Government are not going to do anything with the draconian Trade Union Strike Bill being rushed through Parliament.

Believing share holders will oust him is an illusion when you have Billionaire Daniel Kretinsky and Vesa who currently owns 22% of Royal Mail and looking at 30% with the aquisition of GLS given the green light by government.

Public support is dwindling, especially small business trying to recover after the pandemic and the strikes during their most profitable time of year.
The public support is growing even some of the papers are reporting about letters not getting delivered for weeks,you dont know whats going to happen if the share holders are losing money why would they want to keep ST,he vastly under estimated the union and its members if he is powerful why hasn't he just implemented all of the changes already.
redlen
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by redlen »

Because the share price is currently in the toilet. When GLS is sold that share price will rocket.
When that happens all the big players will cash in and regain their losses which will collapse the share price. Classic pump and dump
walthmstowman
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by walthmstowman »

NWpostie wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 14:42
Personally what would be acceptable to me is 11% back paid, I accept the need to modernise with Sunday working as part of a rota system, introducing PSMs, this would negate the need for compulsory redundancy and a more parcel focussed business with letters maybe delivered 3 days a week, if we increase parcel deliveries it would self fund the pay rise.

However I draw the line at cutting back on sick pay, reduction of holidays, introducing gig economy.

The important thing is not to split the company in two, this would be catastrophic for the staff and for business, it would be complicated to sort out staffing reallocations and assets, business want stability and continuity, politically it will backfire on the government if a split were to happen which translates into votes.

I have previously refused to vote for Labour under Corbyn, but would consider it under Starmer if they will fight for a United Royal Mail.
Whatever happens I seriously doubt we'll ever get an 11% pay rise, maybe between 7% and 9% spread over 18 months .One thing is clear though and that is Simon Thompson has completely lost the workforce and for that reason I believe his position is now untenable .
redlen
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by redlen »

But the workforce has no authority to either put a CEO into that position, or remove that person from the board.

That is why you have a board of directors who have that authority. And so far they have given him carte blanche
richietns
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by richietns »

redlen wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 18:54
Because the share price is currently in the toilet. When GLS is sold that share price will rocket.
When that happens all the big players will cash in and regain their losses which will collapse the share price. Classic pump and dump
Why hasn't he implemented the changes,he dictates but at the same time says thats my final offer,there's also a possibility he can't.
exetererica
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by exetererica »

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Last edited by exetererica on 11 Dec 2022, 20:03, edited 1 time in total.
posted
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Re: What will ultimately break this dispute?

Post by posted »

richietns wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 19:14
redlen wrote:
10 Dec 2022, 18:54
Because the share price is currently in the toilet. When GLS is sold that share price will rocket.
When that happens all the big players will cash in and regain their losses which will collapse the share price. Classic pump and dump
Why hasn't he implemented the changes,he dictates but at the same time says thats my final offer,there's also a possibility he can't.
Some things they can. The practices, policies, procedures etc incl benefits. It's the T&Cs of employment they would need agreement through collective bargaining (union). Otherwise i think there is a legal but protracted route if they want to serve notice on employment contract changes.